My first first date in 3 years.

Ive gone out with girl like this, When I was younger. No way would I now. If you have seen this much of this girl and she hasn't even kissed you then shes screwed up or screwing with you.

Either way I would be pissed and say, "to hell with this $hit."

And you will say the same thing in ten more years after going out with girls like this. Words are dead things, her actions! That is what is real. Where is the affection? the Passion? The ANIMAL?!?!

And her f$#@en friends. I tell you Iv'e seen this $hit before.

It seems obvious to me she used her friends as a shield all weekend long.

To me, there's a difference between "taking things slow" and putting up obstacles.

I'm glad you were finally able to talk to her alone, giving her a chance to explain what's going on.

I thinking I would give her the opportunity to visit you on your turf. That way, there would be no friends, roommates etc as distractions.

Then, you can play it nice and easy, allowing her the opportunity to relax with you in person.

I'd presume there'd be phone calls, emails and text messages before that.

If, after coming to your part of the world, she's still all about taking it slow, being scared, having to think about everything and feeling that things are not happening naturally....then I'd be having 2nd thoughts about her.

I mean, there's taking it slow to make sure how you feel, and for making sure the other person isn't going to take advantage of you....and there's taking it slow because you have all kinds of baggage that's going to take a long time to resolve, and saying "let's take it slow" is just a way to avoid making a choice, changing something about your life.

Also, some people (and I'm not at all saying this is the case here), have a hard time speakin their mind, for fear of not being "nice"
I've known women who keep dating someone they aren't attracted to, just because they can't sem to let the guy know she doesn't really dig him.

She said she'd want to come see you, but what would you do if she kept putting off the date? Once might be understandable, but ONLY if there was an unavoidable commitment, but watch out for the hemming and hawing.

If she wants to come over there, she'd do what she could to make other things that could come up work around her trip to see you, not the other way around.

At this point, if she likes you, she should be looking forward to visiting you. She knows you're not going to take advantage of her.

Wow. I have, like, no dating experience, but that sounds like it was really childish behavior to me. I mean, that's the kind of thing kids I used to know in high school, or even junior high, did when they "liked" someone--sending friends as reconnaissance, switching randomly between avoidance and "Oh, no, I really like you, don't be mad."

And that business when you asked to hold her hand and she just SMILED? Bleahhh. I just absolutely hate when people just smile when you ask them something. What the f*ck does "smile" mean when I ask you a direct question?!? Yuck. I'm very annoyed for you, Diest. This all sounds like a pretty lame response to all the thought and care you put into this. I'm sorry.

Wow, this is surprising. For once I'm the one giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

I'll admit, I was about the hand holding. Me? I would have just taken her hand, but if I asked, a smile would have not been an answer.

It's just holding her hand.

Diest, you have every right to be disappointed. The lady did not manage your visit well, panic or not.
I've been both in her shoes and in yours, so I have sympathy. You're wise to take a step back and let her think for awhile, though I think if it were me I'd have some slight trust issues after this past experience when she next assures you everything is dandy. take a vacation from this for a few days yourself and check back in on your feelings in a few days.

Yeah, I was thinking the same--it wouldn't occur to me to ask if I could hold someone's hand normally, since it's so innocuous. But with the weird signals she'd been sending.....and it sounds like it *was* a good idea to ask since she apparently did think hand-holding was "too much."

Dating is like a job interveiw that never ends.


Barbra Streisand said that

Is it possible that each of you were waiting for the other person to take the lead?

I keep wondering this too.

For instance, the slow dance. She seemed to like that. The hardest part for me was that I was not on my turf and I was not with people I knew. Every place we went was a new place for me and I was not entirely comfortable.

I was hesitant to take the lead because I was the outsider. I was hesitant, because she seemed distant.

She may have been hesitant becase she just doesn't know how?

Yeah. Ball is in her court. I need to see some sort of show of good intention. I deserve my dignity.

I've been able to keep my mind off of it though. I've been preparing for my big move. This is kind of a reminder that long distance sucks though, and I'm not going to get involved with someone who is half-assey. I've spent the last two days looking for apartments around the DC area and northern VA. Iv'e decided Craig's list is horrible for finding a place to live. I've had much better results with Rent.com.

I know I'm going to be okay. I'll find romance somewhere. Perhaps DC will treat me well. My friend Taylor is trying to hook me up with a frind who recently moved out there. We were introduced and now she i helping me find a place.

There may be hope for me still.
K
O

Diest--

Five days is a long weekend. Of course, eight hours is a long drive, but ....

Good that you're going to let her make the next move. The fault, Dear Brutus, is not in you. You were in strange territory and her signals were confusing.

Perhaps she needs more than a year to recover from Blighted Love--perhaps, if the Blighted Love occupies a part of her past she has only had experience in boy/girl dating rather than man/woman dating.

Would you say she's a little immature?

Use your time as a recycled bachelor to find yourself as well as capital-A Romance. The world is full of worthy women--you have no need to rush.

Hold your dominion.

Oh man!

In hindsight, I just thought of the perfect icebreaker you could have used.

While watching the movie, you could have had one of those popcorn boxes on your lap, enouraging her to take as much as she can get her hands on.

See where I'm going with this?



I mean, screw holding hands.



ooohhh....sorry.....I started channeling bi-polar bear for a minute.

Diest, only you can tell, in hindsight, whether this was what was going on with the handholding.

I don't think I'm the only woman who feels a bit funny if some one says "Can I kiss you?" "Can I hold your hand?"

I know ideally, we should all be able to say what out loud we want. But ideally, in my head, it is nice if he is tuned into an exchange of nonverbal cues enough to have some idea how I feel. I find the verbal thing off putting.

At another level, non verbal misunderstandings lead to a percentage of date rapes and it's all terribly unPC, but it's the still the way I feel, and I don't think I'm Robinson Crusoe.

I can't help wondering if you had grinned at her and taken her hand, either before or after you asked, whether it would have worked out OK.

Just a thought.

I hope, whichever way it goes, that it ends in happiness for you.

Wow, I didn't realize your date-weekend was last weekend!

I have been young and I have dated long-distance. Well..... I have had a long-distance boyfriend. That was weird enough, dating would be even harder. The time spent away from each other is long and the time spent with each other is intense.

Youth leads one down silly paths. I think you handled yourself very well, Deist.

hey hey... I'm a sensitive care bear

I most agree with Cyphercat, with the caveat that I may have been this woman at some point, and this whole behavioral thing doesn't mean she's not worthwhile. You might not want to wait that long. And I would suppose that that would depend on your future conversations.

Not that people need to dive into a transcendent romantic weekend, but that the semi-gaming is immature. If you want to go slow, that works, but 2x cowboy bar seems a difficult way to just say it.

I'm mixed on the slow or not scenario. Will let you know when I make up my mind. I should be in my eighties by then. My marriage, a mostly good one, was built on some stupid song blasting from the bar across the street. Hard to be such an advice giver.

Thanks everyone for the comments. The feedback has been very interesting. I was honestly embarrased by the whole ordeal and was hesitant to post it up. I really saw the weekend going different.

I need a successful date. Maybe my second date or my next first date will go better.

T
K
O

It sounds to me that you handled everything perfectly. You were a gentleman.

you are a Good Man, Diest. The whole ordeal is absolutely nothing to be embarassed by, on the contrary. It only shows you are a caring and thoughtful person.

Often when you meet someone in person for the first time after having chatted online or over the phone, you get someone you didn't expect. She may have been surprised or disappointed in what she expected - I can't really say. But I agree with the others that using her friends as a shield was immature. She really should have dignified your online relationship with some one-on-one time and some honesty. Well, maybe she was being honest, who can say?

Better luck on your next first day, Diest.