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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 09:54 am
Yeah, that will be balanced up against the pundits and arithmeticians pointing out that she now needs to win 70+ % of all remaining delegates to have a SHOT at winning this thing.

Her team sure plays the expectations game well. What happened to OH and TX being firewalls? If the other guy breaches your firewall, at least in part, isn't that spectacularly bad? Her 20-point leads in those states vanished. I think that unless Clinton somehow pulls out a huge victory tomorrow night in Ohio, she's toast - and her campaign knows it. The fact that they are putting out brave words to the contrary doesn't mean much.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 10:10 am
sozobe wrote:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


True. And sometimes a cliche is just a cliche.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 10:16 am
Clinton aides now insist losses in Texas and Ohio tomorrow will not force her to quit race
Last updated at 15:52pm on 03.03.08


Desperate Hillary Clinton will stay in the White House race even if she loses tomorrow's pivotal primaries in Texas and Ohio, top aides claimed today.

The former First Lady had staked her political future on wins - with even her husband, former President Bill Clinton, saying she would drop out if she lost the make-or-break contests.

But, as rival Barack Obama closed in on Mrs Clinton's once formidable leads in the two states, her spin machine has changed their tune and insisted she would not give up.

Her chief strategist, Mark Penn, said: "There are 16 remaining contests after Tuesday.

"There's nothing wrong with letting the people in the remaining jurisdictions have their say."

And Mrs Clinton's communications director Howard Wolfson, insised "onus" was on Obama to win Texas and Ohio as well as the tiny states of Vermont and Rhode Island which are also holding primaries.

The latest polls show Clinton retains a small lead in Ohio of just four per cent - but the margin has been continually narrowing.

And In Texas, where the New York senator once enjoyed a double-digit lead, her advantage has all but vanished and the race is now seen as a dead heat.

Some polls claim Mr Obama, the Illinois senator who currently holds a 112-delegate lead following an impressive 11 wins in a row, is even ahead by four points in the Lone Star state.

Victories in Texas and Ohio - with 228 and 161 delegates respectively on offer - would give him an unstoppable advantage in his bid to become the Democrat candidate and America's first black president.

And it was previously thought that if Mrs Clinton lost she would then step down in a bid to heal rifts within the party and allow her rival to battle head-to-head with likely Republican candidate John McCain.

Mr Clinton himself had suggested his wife would drop out after a loss, saying last month: "If she wins Texas and Ohio, I think she will be the nominee. "If you don't deliver for her then I don't think she can be."

It has been feared that staying in the race would spark a donor revolt and defections by exhausted aides, culminating with superdelegates asking her to quit for the good of the party.

"They are going to have a very hard choice to make after Tuesday if she loses Texas or Ohio," Mr Obama's top adviser David Axelrod said. "There are people in the party who are very concerned about this turning into some kind of a Bataan Death March."

But the don't-quit camp is also taking solace from a rejuvenated fundraising operation that is now competitive with Obama's.

The campaign broke its one-month cash record in February, raising more than $30 million in small online donations after Clinton announced she loaned her campaign $5 million.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 11:09 am
Bill's role with TX's prima-caucus
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:38 AM by Mark Murray

From NBC's John Yang and NBC/NJ's Carrie Dann

Late last week, Texas newspapers suggested that the Clinton campaign was threatening legal action against the Texas "Two-Step" prima-caucus, the state's combo primary-caucus contest on Tuesday. The Clinton campaign strenuously denied the reports. But one thing is for certain: Bill Clinton doesn't care for the system.

Here's a quote from him campaigning in Odessa late last month: "Now look, this system was set up years ago when Texas was late, late in the primary process. No one ever thought that the votes would determine the nominee of the party. And frankly, the party leaders set this up, so they could go in. They knew nobody else would go to these conventions, and they could make sure they had a fair share of the folks that went to the national convention. It was never intended to basically reverse the results of a popular election in the daytime, but it could happen."

Yet given that criticism, it's worth noting that, according to Texas Democratic Party attorneys NBC spoke with in the last few days, Bill Clinton's campaign helped write those rules for 1992, and Bill Clinton twice won the Texas primary using those rules.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 11:16 am
ps to stray cat (and soz/sigmund)

Take a look at this Wash Post piece and consider how these negative gender stereotypes can be brought to bear to invalidate womens' (particularly, but mens' also) positive responses towards Barack...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/29/AR2008022902992.html
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 11:24 am
blatham wrote:
ps to stray cat (and soz/sigmund)

Take a look at this Wash Post piece and consider how these negative gender stereotypes can be brought to bear to invalidate womens' (particularly, but mens' also) [..] responses [..].

This has been said a thousand times before, but let's try it again. I dont think Soz, or anyone, denies that this kind of gender stereotyping exists and is pernicious. Just that the fact that it exists doesnt necessarily mean that every single negative opinion and characterisation about a female candidate's rhetorical style, tone etc must just be an expression of conscious or subconscious sexism.

Whereas that has certainly seemed to be exactly the logic you have consistently applied - dismissing pretty much any and all criticisms of Hillary's rhetorical style, tone of voice, etc, as obviously just being exactly that.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 11:29 am
Last week a young high school boy passed out while standing directly behind Arnold Schwarzenegger as he gave a speech after touring a high school. Arnold stopped to ensure the kid was attended to before proceeding. What conclusions regarding gender stereotypes should be drawn from that?


http://cbs13.com/local/schwarzenegger.fainting.boy.2.664581.html
Quote:
Feb 27, 2008 5:34 pm

Gov. Schwarzenegger Helps Fainting Boy At Speech

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) ― It was a pretty big deal for the kids at Northwood Elementary School; it's not every day that the governor of California comes by. The kids from the student council gave Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger a tour of the campus before assembling out front, where the governor was going to give a speech.

At that point, it was lights out for one of the kids.

If you watch the video, keep your eye on the left side of the screen. One of the students, Theo Scott-Femenella, 12, wavered and passed out, falling to the ground. It didn't take the governor long to realize what happened. He went right over to help.

After a few seconds, the boy was back on his feet with the help of Governor Schwarzenegger, and was carried by his father to the nurse's office.

"All of a sudden, I wake up and see Patty Smart and Governor Schwarzenegger helping me up from the ground," Theo said. "That meant, 'Oh no, déjà vu.'"

Theo had fainted once back in the fourth grade, but as a big sixth grader, he never expected it to happen again, certainly not on camera and in front of the governor.

"I'm sure one side of me was thinking, 'Cool, the governor's helping me up,'" Theo said. "But wait, 'I fainted in front of the governor. Oh, no.'"

Back in the nurse's office, Theo got another one-on-one with the governor, who asked him if he was feeling better. At that point, he was feeling fine, but was getting more attention than he ever bargained for.

But it was a good opportunity to talk with the governor about the political issue he's most passionate about. His first words when he woke up: "Darn that global warming."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 02:17 pm
nimh wrote:
blatham wrote:
ps to stray cat (and soz/sigmund)

Take a look at this Wash Post piece and consider how these negative gender stereotypes can be brought to bear to invalidate womens' (particularly, but mens' also) [..] responses [..].

This has been said a thousand times before, but let's try it again. I dont think Soz, or anyone, denies that this kind of gender stereotyping exists and is pernicious. Just that the fact that it exists doesnt necessarily mean that every single negative opinion and characterisation about a female candidate's rhetorical style, tone etc must just be an expression of conscious or subconscious sexism.

Whereas that has certainly seemed to be exactly the logic you have consistently applied -
Quote:
dismissing pretty much any and all criticisms of Hillary's rhetorical style, tone of voice, etc, as obviously just being exactly that.


Well, at least you tried to be accurate this time as regards the specificity of my complaint. What else might they (in red) be, nimh?

The term that inspired the stray cat post repeating her jock's statement was "shrill". Perhaps you'd like to paste in all the examples of that term being applied to the male candidates running in this election.

The image of the allusion which this jock then forwarded (and stray cat forwarded it again) is of a wife yelling at her husband. Perhaps you can now paste in some instances from that rich body of discourse where male candidates have been described as speaking like they were yelling at their wives.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 02:19 pm
Hill announced that she will not debate Obama in the future, saying that she is afraid he will pull a knife.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 02:21 pm
Quote:
Last week a young high school boy passed out while standing directly behind Arnold Schwarzenegger as he gave a speech after touring a high school. Arnold stopped to ensure the kid was attended to before proceeding. What conclusions regarding gender stereotypes should be drawn from that?


I assume that's directed to me. The answer to your question is...none.

Now go back and read that Wash Post column and see what gender stereotypes were forwarded.
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rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 02:24 pm
You better keep Hillary in this thing. There is something going on in chicago with one of Obamas good friends that might splash some bad karma on him. Not in time for the demo. convention but in time for the election. I have been telling you that he is a chicago Daily machine politician.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 02:54 pm
Alterman comments on the Wash Post piece we've just been talking about (along with a second piece)...

Quote:
Really, what's the matter with you chicks? Oh, I see. According to Ms. Allen, you have smaller brains, even proportionately speaking, than men. Lucky you've got boobs, otherwise why bother with you at all? Next week: Why are Negroes so shiftless, Jews so stingy, Puerto Ricans so dirty, Irish drunk all the time, Mexicans lazy, and white male Washington Post editors so wonderful?
http://mediamatters.org/altercation/?f=h_column
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 02:59 pm
With there now being talk about re-doing the FL primary, you can bet Clinton will stay in until that is settled.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:01 pm
maporsche wrote:
With there now being talk about re-doing the FL primary, you can bet Clinton will stay in until that is settled.


How much?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:05 pm
Clinton doesn't want to re-do the FL primary. Not at all. I have no idea why you think she would.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 03:33 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Last week a young high school boy passed out while standing directly behind Arnold Schwarzenegger as he gave a speech after touring a high school. Arnold stopped to ensure the kid was attended to before proceeding. What conclusions regarding gender stereotypes should be drawn from that?


I assume that's directed to me. The answer to your question is...none.

Now go back and read that Wash Post column and see what gender stereotypes were forwarded.


I have read it several times and still can't figure out the correlation you are attempting to draw between women not voting for Hillary Clinton and the convoluted stereotypes of women in that column.

Either I'm too tired to focus or the column is so poorly written it is difficult to follow. You'll have to spell it out for me if you want me to recognize the point you are attempting to make with it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 04:29 pm
Quote:
I have read it several times and still can't figure out the correlation you are attempting to draw between women not voting for Hillary Clinton and the convoluted stereotypes of women in that column.


I'm not making any sort of argument here regarding why a woman, or a male for that matter, ought to vote for Hillary. I truly don't know who would make a better President in the complex environment the US and world will face in the next five years. As regards winning a general election, which I consider most critically and immediately important, I think Barack is more likely to achieve that. Thus, if I were in Texas or Ohio now and could cast a vote tomorrow, it would be for Barack.

I posted the WP article to demonstrate how easily such stereotypes can be used (because they are very powerful bits of cultural and mental architecture) even where a male is the target...either he will be too feminine (Edwards) or the electorate will like the candidate because the electorate themselves are too effeminate. In both cases, "feminine" is what no one ought to be if they are anywhere near a position of power.

I have come to the unsettling conclusion that gender will be a tougher nut to crack, as regards equality in power-attainment, than race will be.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:32 pm
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
They appreciate that Clinton followed what she was told were the rules of how to run for president, only to find that still may not be enough.

"She was told you need experience, toughness and the ability to raise money, and yet the system changed the rules again," said Joan McLean, a top adviser to Geraldine Ferraro in her 1984 vice presidential run and a professor of political science at Ohio Wesleyan University.


Question

I've said this before, but as a feminist -- who thinks there is still plenty of sexism in America -- I think it's more empowering to vote for a woman who is also the best candidate than to vote for the second-best candidate simply because she's a woman.

I think that will happen before too long -- that there will be a woman candidate who is also the best in the field -- and I look forward to voting for that person.


However, I think it's your opinion about her being second best. I think she is the best. But that doesn't change the fact that she has not been treated with anything even resembling fair treatment by the media or the voters.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:34 pm
Lola wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
They appreciate that Clinton followed what she was told were the rules of how to run for president, only to find that still may not be enough.

"She was told you need experience, toughness and the ability to raise money, and yet the system changed the rules again," said Joan McLean, a top adviser to Geraldine Ferraro in her 1984 vice presidential run and a professor of political science at Ohio Wesleyan University.


Question

I've said this before, but as a feminist -- who thinks there is still plenty of sexism in America -- I think it's more empowering to vote for a woman who is also the best candidate than to vote for the second-best candidate simply because she's a woman.

I think that will happen before too long -- that there will be a woman candidate who is also the best in the field -- and I look forward to voting for that person.


However, I think it's your opinion about her being second best. I think she is the best. But that doesn't change the fact that she has not been treated with anything even resembling fair treatment by the media or the voters.


Bull crap. The media has been straight fawning over Clinton as the 'inevitable candidate' for a whole year. It's only when she began to make strategic blunder after blunder that they turned on her.

I think you ought to admit that if Hillary wasn't married to Bill, she wouldn't be anywhere close to the WH. Ever. That's a person feminists want to support - someone who gets where they are in life thanks to their spouse?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Mar, 2008 05:35 pm
Re: Bear
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Bear, when I went to vote in the New Mexico Caucus, I was surprised to discover Joe Biden's name on the ballot. I had to pause for a moment to decide to vote for Biden, my original favorite candidate, or for Clinton. I sighed and voted for Hillary because I didn't want to waste my vote. I do wish Biden was our candidate.

BBB


So do I. I've admired Biden for twenty years.
0 Replies
 
 

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