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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 05:48 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is Hillary really using every damn dirty trick from the Rove playbook?


A Democrat appears to have engaged in dirty election tricks, and all leftists can do is blame a Republican.

Typical.


LOL!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 May, 2008 05:57 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
A Democrat appears to have engaged in dirty election tricks, and all leftists can do is blame a Republican.

Typical.

Hey, it's you guys who set the bar.

And you set it pretty damn high.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 05:50 pm
No particular message to go with this copy/paste; I thought it was just an interesting, evocative portrait of Hillary The Scrapper.

It's fairly pro-Hillary on balance, if for nothing else because of how it does enshrine this image of "Hillary The Scrapper," which is exactly the image the Hillary campaign wants to get across.

A couple of sentences had me muttering: for example (not included below) where it says, "She is also quick to recognize when [people] become liabilities and is ready to cast them aside when necessary. Both friends and critics of Mrs. Clinton said she would never have engaged in the long struggle that Mr. Obama did before finally breaking with his longtime pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr."

Um, hello, how long did she wait with casting Solis Doyle aside? That loyal campaign manager of hers who totally messed up on the campaign's finances, both in NY and now, and by many accounts was an insular, petty, ineffective team manager? Or what about Mark bloody Penn, the PR disaster whom she let enmesh imself so deeply into the campaign operations that she couldnt properly ditch him now even if she wanted? If anything Hillary has a reputation for valuing loyalty and devotion to the camp over actual managerial capacities, and for holding on to people long after they are clearly shown to be in over their head.

But overall, it's certainly an evocative portrait, that very clearly lays out what's driving both her campaign and her enduring popularity among a large part of the Democratic electorate, especially the working class Dem voters.

Quote:
Ruthlessness and Grit Seen in Clinton's Style

New York Times

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/05/05/us/05clinton.xlarge1.jpg
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at a campaign rally on Sunday at Indiana Tech in Fort Wayne.


Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is waving her fists across Indiana, signing autographs on boxing gloves.

"We need a president who's a fighter again," Mrs. Clinton said at a rally on Thursday, adding that the next president must understand what it is like to "get knocked down and get back up: that's the story of America, right?"

In recent days, Mrs. Clinton has chided the experts for "counting me out" and Senator Barack Obama for his inability to "close the deal" and declared that no one was going to make her quit. "She makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy," North Carolina's governor, Michael F. Easley, said in endorsing her, and a union leader in Portage, Ind., praised her "testicular fortitude."

This kind of language and pugilistic imagery, however, also evokes the baggage that makes Mrs. Clinton such a provocative political figure. For as much as a willingness to "do what it takes" and "die hard" are marketable commodities in politics, they can also yield to less flattering qualities, plenty of which have been ascribed to her over the years. Just as supporters praise her "toughness" and "tenacity," critics also describe her as "divisive," "a dirty fighter" or "willing to do anything to win." [..]

[That] camp gained a new spokesman on Thursday when Joe Andrew, a superdelegate who was a chairman of the Democratic National Committee under President Bill Clinton, switched his support to Mr. Obama from Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Andrew accused Mrs. Clinton and her allies of being "the best practitioners of the old politics," who "will use the exact words that Republicans used to attack me when I was defending President Clinton." [..]

"She has learned how to be ruthless," said Robert B. Reich, an Obama supporter who served as Mr. Clinton's secretary of labor and knew Mrs. Clinton in their college days. "I doubt that it came to her naturally, but she has learned."

There is, of course, a fine line between ruthlessness and the necessary grit Mrs. Clinton's supporters say she possesses. Her feisty talk seems to play well with people in her audiences, many of them women who are quick to hail her fighting bona fides.

"Would you want to take her on?" asked Barbara Anderson of Jeffersonville. "I'll tell you, she has survived her fight. Obama has yet to have his."

While Mrs. Clinton is casting herself as a warrior for ordinary Americans who need jobs, health care and cheaper gasoline, she is also establishing a contrast with her opponent, suggesting he is an untested lightweight. She mocks Mr. Obama's rhetoric as naïve and challenges him to debate her on the back of a flat-bed truck.

When asked if the fighting motif could go too far, Mrs. Clinton acknowledged that it could, but then quickly contrasted her aggressive style with Mr. Obama's. His campaign "has been about creating an atmosphere," she said. "I've never understood that. Because it's not easy. I've been in a lot of these fights."

Mrs. Clinton wears her battle scars proudly, and her surrogates promote them. In introducing her at a campaign event in Jeffersonville last week, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told the crowd she had "endured one of the most savage beatings of anyone I've ever seen in my lifetime" from her political adversaries on the right.

Some of the conflicts she has engaged in were of her own choosing, like education reform in Arkansas, while others, like Whitewater and impeachment, were not. Her fighting style was honed in combat against opponents who could be relentless in their own right, both in Arkansas, where she was criticized as the young governor's uppity wife who refused to take his name, and in Washington, where Republicans vowed to kill her efforts to overhaul health care.

From Mr. Clinton's 1980 defeat as governor in Arkansas and the Democrats' presidential losses through the next decade, the Clintons took away an enduring lesson: No attack can go unanswered. It must be dealt with fast, hard and decisively.

To that end, Mrs. Clinton has spearheaded the creation of "war rooms" over the years, beginning with the rapid-response media operation of Mr. Clinton's 1992 presidential campaign "She was the one who named it ?'war room,' " said James Carville, the longtime Clinton loyalist.

Mrs. Clinton continued with a White House war room during the successful campaign to pass Mr. Clinton's economic plan in 1993 and another for her ill-fated effort to overhaul the health care system. In that effort, the first lady went after the pharmaceutical and insurance industries as villains but also turned on a potential ally, Representative Jim Cooper, Democrat of Tennessee, who had proposed an alternative plan. Her team solicited fellow Democrats to denounce him and his proposal.

"To me it showed her brittleness, her coldness, her spoiling for a fight," said Mr. Cooper, an Obama backer. "She's so good at this war machine stuff, it's sad."

When she arrived in the Senate, Mrs. Clinton, who represents New York, urged Democratic leaders to establish a war room in the Capitol to respond to every Republican attack and to hammer home a daily message. And in her current campaign, where the war room occupies a prominent place in her headquarters in suburban Virginia, she has been a consistent advocate for hitting Mr. Obama hard.

Campaign insiders say she has usually sided with advisers favoring a more aggressive approach to challenging Mr. Obama, of Illinois, instead of those arguing for restraint, worried about reinforcing the negatives about her image.

A lawyer, Mrs. Clinton has never been a litigator. But those who know her describe her as litigator-like in her attacks: methodically gathering evidence and marshaling her arguments, habits she has displayed in Senate hearings and on the campaign trail.

While living in Arkansas, she once appeared at a news conference called by a political rival of her husband's, pulled a sheaf of papers from her purse and began reading them aloud to counter his claims about Mr. Clinton. During the Whitewater investigation, White House aides described Mrs. Clinton pressing them to find negative information about Kenneth W. Starr, the special prosecutor, and to pass it on to reporters. In her husband's 1992 presidential campaign, she helped oversee the team that hired a private investigator to try to discredit Gennifer Flowers, who declared she had an affair with Mr. Clinton.

Mrs. Clinton is said to be a more disciplined fighter than her husband. "He never stops trying to convert people," said Max Brantley, an old friend of the Clintons from Arkansas, who writes a column for The Arkansas Times, an alternative newspaper. "She's much more clear-eyed, recognizing the imperfectability of people." [..]

In recent years, Mrs. Clinton has more readily acknowledged her mistakes and become more willing to compromise. She has also disarmed old enemies ?- courting, if not entirely winning over, some of her nemeses in the news media, like Rupert Murdoch and Richard Mellon Scaife [..].

"Part of being a political warrior is knowing when to maintain a grudge and when not to," said Mr. Reich, the former labor secretary. "If you need somebody for a vote, if you need the media, then there's no reason to settle scores. You do what you have to do." [..]

As Mr. Obama has learned, the central principle of Mrs. Clinton's combat style is simple endurance. Like her husband, she has always taken fierce pride in sticking around, outlasting enemies.

"We're going to keep on going," Mr. Clinton said to his wife in the final passage of Bob Woodward's book "The Agenda" after the couple had pushed the White House economic plan through Congress. "They're never going to stop us."

That scene has obvious resonance today in Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign, and with voters.

"She's not going to quit, not going to quit fighting," said Jody O'Dell of Decatur, Ill., who met Mrs. Clinton last week in Jeffersonville. She got her signature, too, a prized "Hillary" across a pair of red boxing gloves.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 07:33 pm
so much fighting , debating, nastiness, opinion.... tomorrow I will do the one and only thing meaningful I can do... I will vote for Hillary in the primary
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 08:03 pm
Shades of 1948, and "Give 'em hell Harry"
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 08:22 pm
The Weekly Standard marvels about just how much Hillary Clinton has become... well, like them:

Quote:
She's running a right-wing campaign. She's running the classic Republican race against her opponent, running on toughness and use-of-force issues, the campaign that the elder George Bush ran against Michael Dukakis, that the younger George Bush waged in 2000 and then again against John Kerry, and that Ronald Reagan--"The Bear in the Forest"--ran against Jimmy Carter and Walter F. Mondale. And she's doing it with much the same symbols...

Her ads are like the ones McCain would be running in her place, and they'll doubtless show up in McCain's ads should Obama defeat her. She has said that while she and McCain are both prepared to be president, Obama is not. They act, he makes speeches. They take heat, while he tends to wilt or to faint in the kitchen. He may even throw like a girl.

And better--or worse--she is becoming a social conservative, a feminist form of George Bush. Against an opponent who shops for arugula, hangs out with ex-Weathermen, and says rural residents cling to guns and to God in unenlightened despair at their circumstances, she has rushed to the defense of religion and firearms, while knocking back shots of Crown Royal and beer. Her harsh, football-playing Republican father (the villain of the piece, against whom she rebelled in earlier takes on her story) has become a role model, a working class hero, whose name she evokes with great reverence. Any day now, she'll start talking Texan, and cutting the brush out in Chappaqua or at her posh mansion on Embassy Row.

Hillary Clinton, George W. Bush redux?

(via TNR)
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 08:25 pm
not possible.....
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 08:28 pm
Why not? She does want to know if you're with us or against us.... on this gas tax holiday.
0 Replies
 
Not a Soccer Mom
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 08:38 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is Hillary really using every damn dirty trick from the Rove playbook?


A Democrat appears to have engaged in dirty election tricks, and all leftists can do is blame a Republican.

Typical.


If Ms Clinton is chided for using Rovian techniques, how is that blaming a Republican? I don't get it, I also don't get you calling some one who appears to be moderately liberal a "leftist."
0 Replies
 
Not a Soccer Mom
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 09:08 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Why not? She does want to know if you're with us or against us.... on this gas tax holiday.


What nonsense, I guess she thinks "blue collar whites" are stupid enough not to know her gas tax holiday plan has about as much chance being signed into law as she does winning the final committed delegate count.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 10:03 pm
Not a Soccer Mom wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Is Hillary really using every damn dirty trick from the Rove playbook?


A Democrat appears to have engaged in dirty election tricks, and all leftists can do is blame a Republican.

Typical.


If Ms Clinton is chided for using Rovian techniques, how is that blaming a Republican? I don't get it, I also don't get you calling some one who appears to be moderately liberal a "leftist."


Well, nimh was clearly taking a dig at Rove ... and this is something that even a newbie could see.

And a "moderately liberal" individual is a "leftist" in my view.

Welcome to A2K.
0 Replies
 
Not a Soccer Mom
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 11:54 pm
Thank you, so much for Hillary 08, unless Obama adds her to the ticket.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 06:09 am
Not a Soccer Mom wrote:
Thank you, so much for Hillary 08, unless Obama adds her to the ticket.


Obama does not have a death wish.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 01:45 pm
Andrew Sullivan wrote:
The representative of working class white America is now using her own multi-million dollar fortune to ensure that the little people's voices are heard. It's a nice contrast with the elitist, commie egghead who has revolutionized campaign finance with 1.5 million small donors. But, hey, the Clintons can simply position themselves the way the Bushies do: they create their own reality. But what the Clintons' self-financing now means is that all the sleaze around Bill's post-presidential money-grubbing is on the table. The Clintons are financing their campaign with dollars gained by Bill's speaking gigs to all sorts of interested parties. Who paid him? Why? What did they get out of it? To whom will this wannabe president already indebted?


(This is about the $6.25 million that Hillary loaned herself last month. With the earlier $5 million she's over the 10 million she's earned herself and dipping into shared money -- which is fine, but during the whole tax release thing she argued that Bill Clinton's finances weren't pertinent because she made a loan to her campaign out of her own money.) (Sullivan should, as always, be taken with a grain of salt, but I agree with his main points.)
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 03:08 pm
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6923/hilltoastdu6.jpg
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 03:12 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Not a Soccer Mom wrote:
If Ms Clinton is chided for using Rovian techniques, how is that blaming a Republican? I don't get it, I also don't get you calling some one who appears to be moderately liberal a "leftist."


Well, nimh was clearly taking a dig at Rove ... and this is something that even a newbie could see.

And a "moderately liberal" individual is a "leftist" in my view.

Welcome to A2K.

Yup, welcome to A2K, Not a Soccer Mum.

Thanks for your post. You're right, saying that Hillary behaves like Rove Not Equal blaming Rove for what Hillary does. It's just saying that Hillary's acting like Rove.

However, there was no way for you to know of course, but I am in fact indeed a leftist; not just moderately liberal. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 03:18 pm
I emailed Hillary and asked her to run as an independent...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 03:18 pm
One thing that tells you how much the Clintons have jumped the shark is their loss of sense of proportion -- about themselves.

This goes especially for Bill. He's been up in the rarefied air of being President, ex-President, the party's big dog, for so long that he just doesnt see his own place clear anymore. Lost his sense of reality - happens, with some of those who have been up too high for too long.

Flagged on MSNBC's First Read was a pretty clear sign of that:

Quote:
LEBANON, IN -- Just in case you were wondering how Bill Clinton feels about his tenure as president, he said this to a crowd here:

"Folks, it's always a mistake to bet against America. It was tough in 1968, and we came back. It was tough in 1992 and we wound up with the eight best years we've had in modern history."


The eight best years we've had in modern history? Shocked

Jeebus.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 06:45 pm
kickycan wrote:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6923/hilltoastdu6.jpg

Uma Stalker Guilty! I'm glad you posted that; I'd missed it.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 07:36 pm
People though McCain was toast...hey, guess who will be the Repub nominee.
0 Replies
 
 

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