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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2008 08:32 am
The Day Hillary Knew She Lost

SNIP:

Earlier this week, Hillary Clinton was back in Michigan, a full two months after its "primary," pleading with the state legislature to allow a revote in the state. As she stood in downtown Detroit, it was becoming increasingly clear that there would be no do-over and she looked for the first time as if she realized she had lost, in that typically defiant "I'll-drag-you-all-down-with-me" Clinton way. After all, she had staked whatever little she had left on a revote in a state in which fully 40% of the Democratic voters showed up on a cold January day to vote Uncommitted (ie, anyone but Clinton, the only name on the ballot), in which the most recent public polling shows her in a dead heat with Barack Obama, and where she had firmly backed the "disenfranchisement" she was now decrying. And even this slender straw of a revote was denied her: the extent of the despair is plain.

Clinton will not be the Democratic nominee because she will not be able to erase Obama's delegate lead. And she will not be able to gain enough delegates because Democratic primary voters nationwide have decided that they prefer Obama as their candidate in the general election. It isn't more complicated than that, despite the Clintons' grotesque attempts at changing the rules, masking the truth and comfortably living up to their reputation for lacking trustworthiness.

Even in the worst week of his campaign, Obama has actually increased his lead over Clinton in national polls, according to Real Clear Politics, the standard in the matter. There are states in which the Clintons' relentless baiting of race, gender and, now, patriotism has taken its toll, at least in the short term: Ohio and Missouri, for instance, are less likely to vote for Obama now than they were a couple of weeks ago. It won't be clear until November if this is a short-term effect, or a more in depth problem; either way, that is the Clintons' legacy, once again: making it harder for Democrats other than themselves to gain power, whether in the Congress in the 1990s, or in this year's presidential election. There are other states in which Clinton's assault has made no difference whatsoever, or even hurt her more than him: in California and in New York, for instance, where in the latter Obama now leads McCain by a larger margin than she does (despite the fact she is a Senator from the state).

Since February 5, 62 superdelegates have endorsed Obama, and only a handful have endorsed Clinton (more have switched to him than have newly endorsed her): it's safe to say that superdelegates are not the path to victory for Clinton, despite her campaign's best efforts to spook them with the specter of GOP religious and racial warfare against Obama in November.

Despite a core group of financial backers who stepped in to try to buy a Michigan revote, Clinton cannot be rolling in cash right now and she is weeks away from her likely next victory...
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2008 08:22 pm
Nimah
Thanks for cherry picking part of my post. I didn't say what you are trying to claim I did. Address the whole post and ill argue with you, but not with the partial posting you addressed. And believe it or not in the part of the country I live in the white people live just as poorly as most blacks with less help because we are a small community with no factories to supply jobs. We used to have work but they have all been moved to Mexico, India, and China.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2008 10:30 pm
That was a good article. Puts Hillary and Bill in pretty clear perspective.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2008 11:07 pm
maporsche wrote:
So...to recap....if the majority of the superdelegates vote for Obama they are merely voting for who they think can best lead the country (i.e. the best candidate).

If they think Clinton is the best candidate and they vote for her, they risk destroying the party.....which Roxxxanne says they'll never do......so they vote for Obama....but they don't think Obama is the best candidate......so they vote for Clinton.....but then they destroy the party so the vote for Obama.....but they......I give up.


The Democrats' Super Disaster

By JOHN YOO
March 24, 2008

Until recent weeks, one of the least understood aspects of the Democrats' primary contest was the role of superdelegates. These are Democratic Party insiders, members of Congress, and other officials who can cast ballots at the party's national convention this summer.

But now these unelected delegates are coming in for a close inspection, because neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama can win their party's nomination without superdelegate support. The big Pennsylvania primary on April 22, for example, has only 158 delegates at stake (each of them will be pledged to support one of the candidates). By comparison, there are a total of 795 superdelegates, none of whom are required to honor the will of the voters of their state at the party's convention.


Sound undemocratic? It is. That the 2008 Democratic nominee for president will be chosen by individuals no one voted for in the primaries flew for too long under the commentariat's radar. This from the party that litigated to "make every vote count" in the 2000 Florida recount, reviled the institution of the Electoral College for letting the loser of the national popular election win the presidency, and has called the Bush administration illegitimate ever since.

Democratic Party reforms in 1982 gave super-delegates about 20% of convention votes -- so that party greybeards can stop a popular, but politically extreme, candidate from seizing the nomination. The Democrats deliberately rejiggered their party's rules to head off insurgent candidates, like a George McGovern or a Jimmy Carter, who might be crushed in the general election. Unelected delegates thus have more than twice the votes of the richest state prize, California.

So much for unfiltered democracy. In truth, the Democratic Party runs by rules that are the epitome of the smoke-filled room and ensure, in essence, that congressional incumbents exercise a veto power over the nomination.

This delegate dissonance wasn't anything the Framers of the U.S. Constitution dreamed up. They believed that letting Congress choose the president was a dreadful idea. Without direct election by the people, the Framers said that the executive would lose its independence and vigor and become a mere servant of the legislature. They had the record of revolutionary America to go on. All but one of America's first state constitutions gave state assemblies the power to choose the governor. James Madison commented that this structure allowed legislatures to turn governors into "little more than ciphers."

That's why, during the Constitutional Convention in 1787, the Framers rejected early proposals to follow any such model. New York delegate Gouverneur Morris explained that if Congress picked the president, he "will not be independent of it; and if not independent, usurpation and tyranny on the part of the Legislature will be the consequence." Choosing the president would result from the "work of intrigue, of cabal, and of faction." After weeks of debate, the Framers vested the presidency with its own base of popular support by establishing a national election, saying that the president should represent the views of the entire people, not the wishes of Congress.

They kept the same rule when considering what should happen when the president ran for re-election. Alexander Hamilton wrote, while ratification of the Constitution was being debated, "that the executive should be independent for his continuance in office on all, but the people themselves," for otherwise, the president might "be tempted to sacrifice his duty to his complaisance for those whose favor was necessary to the duration of his official consequence."

The Framers were deeply concerned that a president chosen by Congress would keep his eye only on the happiness of legislators, turning our government into a parliamentary system like those which prevail in Europe today, in which the nation's leader is merely a prime minister.

Press reports indicate that the Framers were right to worry. The Clinton and Obama campaigns are now competing hard to win superdelegates. Members of Congress no doubt will cut deals for themselves and their constituents. A water project here, some pet legislation there -- surely such details are worth the nomination. Lose, and the candidate pays nothing. Win, and a presidency is gained. Like shareholders deciding whether to sell in a tender offer, superdelegates will bargain ferociously until the moment that the nominee secures a delegate majority. As we close in on the Democratic convention, the demand for superdelegates will escalate, with the choice of the nominee becoming increasingly the work of political intrigue, inside deals, and power struggles among special interest groups -- just as the Framers feared.

A nominee who survives this process will come to the presidency weighed down by dozens, if not hundreds, of commitments. Little hope there for a fresh start, or any break from a politics-as-usual Congress. Some may welcome such a development. Some students of American politics argue that the president and Congress should work more closely together. Critics of the Bush administration may well prefer a President Clinton or Obama who obeys congressional wishes.

But the historical record on this is not heartening. During the reign of the Jeffersonians, the progenitors of today's Democrats, the congressional caucus chose the party's nominee. It was a system that yielded mediocrity, even danger. Congressional hawks pushed James Madison into the War of 1812 by demanding ever more aggressive trade restrictions against Great Britain and ultimately declaring war -- all because they wanted to absorb Canada. It ended with a stalemate in the north, the torching of the U.S. capital, and Gen. Andrew Jackson winning a victory at the Battle of New Orleans.

"King Caucus" finally broke down when the system reached a peak of "cabal, intrigue, and faction." Jackson received the plurality of the popular vote in the election of 1824, but with no Electoral College majority the choice went to the House of Representatives. In what became known as the "corrupt bargain," House Speaker Henry Clay, who had come in fourth, threw his electors behind John Quincy Adams in exchange for being appointed Secretary of State. Jackson spent the next four years successfully attacking the legitimacy of the Adams administration and won his revenge in the election of 1828.

It is unlikely that a candidate today would trade a cabinet post for a superdelegate's vote. Sen. Harry Reid is unlikely to be the next Secretary of Veterans' Affairs, or Speaker Nancy Pelosi the next Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. But the election of 1824 ought to serve as a caution about what may happen again today, if we let Congress play a large role in choosing the next president. Our Framers designed the Constitution to prevent just this from happening. The Democrats have created an electoral system that echoes failed models from the American past, and threatens to sap the presidency of its independence and authority by turning it into the handmaiden of Congress instead of the choice of the American people.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2008 11:25 pm
Quote:
The Democrats' Super Disaster

By JOHN YOO
March 24, 2008


Would this be the "Torture Memo" John Yoo? Indeed it would be.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2008 11:48 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
The Democrats' Super Disaster

By JOHN YOO
March 24, 2008


Would this be the "Torture Memo" John Yoo? Indeed it would be.


Article has rattled you, I see. I have more.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 07:43 am
Dowd on Hillary's exit
Quote:
It is a tribute to Hillary Clinton that even though, rationally, political soothsayers think she can no longer win, irrationally, they wonder how she will pull it off.

It's impossible to imagine The Terminator, as a former aide calls her, giving up. Unless every circuit is out, she'll regenerate enough to claw her way out of the grave, crawl through the Rezko Memorial Lawn and up Obama's wall, hurl her torso into the house and brutally haunt his dreams.

"It's like one of those movies where you think you know the end, but then you watch with your fingers over your eyes," said one leading Democrat.

That's a typical Dowd construction and ordinarily it wouldn't be worth the paper it is printed on. But she closes her column with a valuable insight.

If Jimmy Carter, Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi are the dealmakers, it won't take Hercule Poirot to figure out who had knives out for Hillary in this "Murder on the Orient Express."

Carter, who felt he was not treated with a lot of respect by the Clintons when they were in the White House, favors Obama.

"The Clintons will be there when they need you," said a Carter friend.

Al Gore blames Bill Clinton's trysts with Monica for losing him the White House. He resented sharing the vice presidency with Hillary and sharing the donors and attention with her when she ran for Senate as he ran for president.

"There's no love between him and Hillary," said one former Clintonista. "It was like Mitterrand with his wife and girlfriend. They were always competing for the affection of the big guy."

Like Carter and Gore, Nancy Pelosi was appalled by Bill's escapades with Monica. And, as The Times's Carl Hulse wrote, the Speaker has been viewed as "putting her thumb on the scale for Mr. Obama" in recent weeks. As a leading China basher, the San Francisco pol tangled bitterly with President Clinton over his pursuit of a free-trade agreement with China, once charging him with papering over China's horrible record on human rights. And she has been put off by the abrasive ways of some top Hillary people.


The Clintons are looking around and realizing that they don't have as many friends as they thought they had. But it isn't really important what Maureen Dowd says. What matters is that the media is now giving itself permission to write the Clintons' epitaph. There is no way for the Clintons to stop the momentum of this narrative once it catches on in the press. Once Tim Russert starts quoting Halperin and Dowd, then everyone will start echoing the new common wisdom. It was too long in coming, but it's too long to the Pennsylvania primary for the Clintons to maintain the fiction that they have a chance.

Now, one of the strongest articles of faith in the business is that the Clintons will never give up and they will do anything to win, even if it hands John McCain the White House on a silver platter. But even the Clintons need the support of a certain baseline percentage of the political establishment. There is no way that Hillary will be president or vice-president, but she might be able to negotiate something of value. Some people have suggested that she could be made Majority Leader of the Senate. I think that's a long shot, mainly because of logistics (how do you get 50-plus senators to agree in advance?). Others have suggested a seat on the Supreme Court. That would be possible if the Democrats pick up a few seats in the Senate (and maybe even without it). And it would be a priceless spectacle to watch the right-wing howl in agony as she took her place on the court.

A lesser prize could be attained if Teddy Kennedy would offer her his chairmanship of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. From that perch she could be instrumental in pushing through Obama's health care reform (although, they'd have to get the Rules Committee to give HELP jurisdiction over the bill).

I can't really think of another prize that Clinton might want. But cabinet positions could also be up for grabs. In any case, I hope that the Clintons are taking a moment over this Easter weekend to take a realistic appraisal of their prospects and options. The media narrative isn't going to get any friendlier, and any attacks on Obama from this point on are going to be met by increasing resistance from the party establishment (including superdelegates).
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:44 am
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
The Democrats' Super Disaster

By JOHN YOO
March 24, 2008


Would this be the "Torture Memo" John Yoo? Indeed it would be.


Article has rattled you, I see. I have more.


Naw. I love the guy. Who wouldn't?

Quote:
In explaining the Unitary executive theory, Yoo made the following statements during a December 1, 2005, debate in Chicago, Illinois, with Notre Dame Law School Professor Doug Cassel:

Cassel: If the President deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty.
Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 10:20 am
In the words of Vice-President Cheney...

"So?"
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 05:46 am
From "The Long Defeat" - an editorial by David BrooksÂ…

/snip/

When you step back and think about it, she is amazing. She possesses the audacity of hopelessness.
Why does she go on like this? Does Clinton privately believe that Obama is so incompetent that only she can deliver the policies they both support? Is she simply selfish, and willing to put her party through agony for the sake of her slender chance? Are leading Democrats

/snip/

No wonder the Clinton campaign feels impersonal. It's like a machine for the production of politics. It plows ahead from event to event following its own iron logic. The only question is whether Clinton herself can step outside the apparatus long enough to turn it off and withdraw voluntarily or whether she will force the rest of her party to intervene and jam the gears.

If she does the former, she would surprise everybody with a display of self-sacrifice. Her campaign would cruise along at a lower register until North Carolina, then use that as an occasion to withdraw. If she does not, she would soldier on doggedly, taking down as many allies as necessary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/opinion/25brooks.html?_r=1&pagewanted=printp&oref=slogin
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 06:41 am
I start to get uncomfortable when we entertain ourselves with visions of Clinton's concession speech. The fact is that she can still win the nomination. The longer this goes on, the better for her. After she wins PA and Kentucky and W. Virginia, she'll argue that Obama is too damaged to win the presidency and that white folks won't vote for him. If that's enough to swing the supers, then she's in. Is it and icky way to win? Yes, but that really doesn't matter right now. It's not the audacity of hopelessness, it's the audacity of cynicism.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 07:41 am
that's my theme song duckie... the audacity of cynicism.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 08:02 am
Don't I know it. I can't knock it as it's a close cousin to skepticism, my lifelong love.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 08:49 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
that's my theme song duckie... the audacity of cynicism.

BPB, are you still supporting Clinton all the way to the White House? I haven't seen a pro-Clinton comment for a while, but I don't follow every thread.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 10:16 am
nope... I'm disgusted with her.... I completely disagree with McCains war policies... and I think Obama is a snake oil salesman... I'm in this now strictly for the comedy...
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 12:23 pm
Hillary joins in the Wright dead-horse-beating contest. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_558930.html

I have to admit this kind of pisses me off. Even McCain didn't jump on this bandwagon. I had thought that this was a right-wing attack on Obama but now I'm thinking maybe not.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 02:14 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Hillary joins in the Wright dead-horse-beating contest. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_558930.html

I have to admit this kind of pisses me off. Even McCain didn't jump on this bandwagon. I had thought that this was a right-wing attack on Obama but now I'm thinking maybe not.


this was NEVER a right wing attack. Clearly, Mrs. Bill Clinton set this up for release at a time appropriate for her, which is NOW.

If this was right wing, McCain would have released it AFTER Obama got the nomination.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 03:22 pm
It looks like the best thing McCain can do before the nominations is to just lay low. I think he's doing it.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 03:34 pm
roger wrote:
It looks like the best thing McCain can do before the nominations is to just lay low. I think he's doing it.


Like going to the US Virgin Islands for 3 days?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Mar, 2008 05:55 pm
roger wrote:
It looks like the best thing McCain can do before the nominations is to just lay low. I think he's doing it.


While Hillary and Obama have been fighting each other, McCain was meeting with foreign leaders.
That will be a big advantage for him, as long as he stays out of the dems catfight.
0 Replies
 
 

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