If Clinton Wins

The conclusion being reached here, admittedly looking from the outside and unlikely to be due to an understanding of the subtleties, is that the office being battled over is of not as much significance as we have been led to think.

Isn't Congress the power in the land?

I have read an article in the Sunday Times about the deeply flawed nature of the Clintons in all their manifestations. It is difficult to believe after that that a superpower will place its destiny in the hands of such people.

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They don't even look right.

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Everybody is flawed, none so deeply as politicians. And if we're stupid enough to put the country in the hands of a spoiled, petulant, irresponsible, ignorant who never worked for anything in his life, we could do worse than giving Hillary a shot at it.

Of course, I prefer Obama.

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kickycan wrote:

I have a gut feeling that if Obama wins the nomination he will win against McCain while if Hillary does she will lose to McCain. I think Romney is out of the picture.

I have the same gut feeling, likely brought about by the reams of information provided by Nimh and others that suggests as much as well as no small amount of anecdotal evidence that suggests the same. I fully believe Hillary Clinton is probably the best candidate since Ronald Reagan to unite the Republican Party. I will likely vote for Obama or McCain.

If Obama can bring Kicky and I together ( Shocked

), imagine what he can do for these United States.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

From MSNBC site appox. 45 seconds ago

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** A split decision: The Clinton and Obama campaigns engaged in a furious game of spin before Super Tuesday, but Obama might have put it best when he said on TODAY and Morning Joe yesterday that it would end up being a split decision. In fact, after they traded state after state last night, it reminded us of "Rocky I" -- lots of drama, lots of punches landed and received, and ultimately a draw. And just like with that movie, we're now headed to a sequel to find a true winner. It looks like Obama, by the narrowest of margins, won last night's delegate hunt. By our estimates, he picked up 840 to 849 delegates versus 829-838 for Clinton; the Obama camp projects winning by nine delegates (845-836). He also won more states (13 to Clinton's eight; New Mexico is still outstanding), although she won the most populous ones (California and New York). And Obama's argument that he might be the most electable Democrat in a general election was bolstered by the fact that he won nine red states versus four for Clinton. Yet with Clinton's overall superdelegate lead (259-170, based on the lists they've released to us), and when you toss in the 63-48 lead Obama had among pledged delegates going into Super Tuesday, it appears Clinton has about 70 more overall delegates than Obama does (1140-1150 for Clinton versus 1070 to 1080 for Obama). It's that close, folks

So, not counting the super-delegates, Obama got more?

Not bad

Cycloptichorn

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

kickycan wrote:
I have a gut feeling that if Obama wins the nomination he will win against McCain while if Hillary does she will lose to McCain. I think Romney is out of the picture.
I have the same gut feeling, likely brought about by the reams of information provided by Nimh and others that suggests as much as well as no small amount of anecdotal evidence that suggests the same. I fully believe Hillary Clinton is probably the best candidate since Ronald Reagan to unite the Republican Party. I will likely vote for Obama or McCain.

If Obama can bring Kicky and I together (), imagine what he can do for these United States.

A lot of the internal bickering that will ensure McCain wins over Clinton will be a result of what happens at the Democratic Convention with the rule-change over the Michigan and Florida delegates. If it is allowed to be changed after-the-fact, the Democratic party as a whole will suffer an irreversible fracture and that fracture will be looking for a new home. For Clinton to win the November elections she needs to fight to keep the party whole. A last minute rule change will not do that and she will probably lose.

Dean has been sending out fundraising requests for the DNC and many of the responses have been "not until you settle the issue over MI and FL."
It was a stupid move for the DNC to make in the first place and now they are stuck between the two factions having to either stand by their ruling or back down to a power play. The end result will be that none of them will keep the party whole in the long run, no matter the final decision.

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Wow!

John Kerry was on CNN earlier saying that a lot of superdelegates support Obama but don't want to come out and say so yet. He would say that -- he's campaigning for Obama -- but that's an impression I've gotten from many quarters, too. That there are a lot of people who don't want to piss off Future President Hillary Clinton, but who are willing to piss off Future Senator Hillary Clinton and support Future President Barack Obama... if they think that's what will happen. As he looks more and more electable (if he looks more and more electable, but I'm cautiously optimistic), I think more and more superdelegates will endorse him (and there are still something like 400 are up for grabs), and maybe some of the ones who came out for Hillary early will switch.

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I assume you have read this

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Gustav
According to your above link, most of the super delegates prefer Clinton.

So the trend is this.
Uphold American interest and projeect a face, so familior to the world to strive hard the never fulfilled AMERICAN DREAMS. Or the Dreams of Americans.

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You have an interesting way of wording things, Rama.

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Sometimes Rama's posts remind me of those sayings you get in Chinese fortune cookies.

Quote:

Uphold American interest and projeect a face, so familior to the world to strive hard the never fulfilled AMERICAN DREAMS.

Can you see it here:

http://www.redkid.net/generator/fortune/yoursign.jpg

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In Belgian they have a proverb.

Experience is the comb that
Nature gives us when we are bald..

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
From MSNBC site appox. 45 seconds ago

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** A split decision: The Clinton and Obama campaigns engaged in a furious game of spin before Super Tuesday, but Obama might have put it best when he said on TODAY and Morning Joe yesterday that it would end up being a split decision. In fact, after they traded state after state last night, it reminded us of "Rocky I" -- lots of drama, lots of punches landed and received, and ultimately a draw. And just like with that movie, we're now headed to a sequel to find a true winner. It looks like Obama, by the narrowest of margins, won last night's delegate hunt. By our estimates, he picked up 840 to 849 delegates versus 829-838 for Clinton; the Obama camp projects winning by nine delegates (845-836). He also won more states (13 to Clinton's eight; New Mexico is still outstanding), although she won the most populous ones (California and New York). And Obama's argument that he might be the most electable Democrat in a general election was bolstered by the fact that he won nine red states versus four for Clinton. Yet with Clinton's overall superdelegate lead (259-170, based on the lists they've released to us), and when you toss in the 63-48 lead Obama had among pledged delegates going into Super Tuesday, it appears Clinton has about 70 more overall delegates than Obama does (1140-1150 for Clinton versus 1070 to 1080 for Obama). It's that close, folks

So, not counting the super-delegates, Obama got more?

Not bad

Cycloptichorn

I keep hearing Obama's camp and worshippers talking about how he has more delegates.... everytime Ilook at cold stats I see something different....
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I keep hearing Obama's camp and worshippers talking about how he has more delegates....

Actually, you posted that piece that said he has more delegates.

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I misposted then....excuse me...

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
From MSNBC site appox. 45 seconds ago

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** A split decision: The Clinton and Obama campaigns engaged in a furious game of spin before Super Tuesday, but Obama might have put it best when he said on TODAY and Morning Joe yesterday that it would end up being a split decision. In fact, after they traded state after state last night, it reminded us of "Rocky I" -- lots of drama, lots of punches landed and received, and ultimately a draw. And just like with that movie, we're now headed to a sequel to find a true winner. It looks like Obama, by the narrowest of margins, won last night's delegate hunt. By our estimates, he picked up 840 to 849 delegates versus 829-838 for Clinton; the Obama camp projects winning by nine delegates (845-836). He also won more states (13 to Clinton's eight; New Mexico is still outstanding), although she won the most populous ones (California and New York). And Obama's argument that he might be the most electable Democrat in a general election was bolstered by the fact that he won nine red states versus four for Clinton. Yet with Clinton's overall superdelegate lead (259-170, based on the lists they've released to us), and when you toss in the 63-48 lead Obama had among pledged delegates going into Super Tuesday, it appears Clinton has about 70 more overall delegates than Obama does (1140-1150 for Clinton versus 1070 to 1080 for Obama). It's that close, folks

So, not counting the super-delegates, Obama got more?

Not bad

Cycloptichorn

but you agree that Hillary has more delgates than Obama correct?

How about you Free duck? I'd say I didn't mispost anything really... would you agree that Hillary has more delegates?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
From MSNBC site appox. 45 seconds ago

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** A split decision: The Clinton and Obama campaigns engaged in a furious game of spin before Super Tuesday, but Obama might have put it best when he said on TODAY and Morning Joe yesterday that it would end up being a split decision. In fact, after they traded state after state last night, it reminded us of "Rocky I" -- lots of drama, lots of punches landed and received, and ultimately a draw. And just like with that movie, we're now headed to a sequel to find a true winner. It looks like Obama, by the narrowest of margins, won last night's delegate hunt. By our estimates, he picked up 840 to 849 delegates versus 829-838 for Clinton; the Obama camp projects winning by nine delegates (845-836). He also won more states (13 to Clinton's eight; New Mexico is still outstanding), although she won the most populous ones (California and New York). And Obama's argument that he might be the most electable Democrat in a general election was bolstered by the fact that he won nine red states versus four for Clinton. Yet with Clinton's overall superdelegate lead (259-170, based on the lists they've released to us), and when you toss in the 63-48 lead Obama had among pledged delegates going into Super Tuesday, it appears Clinton has about 70 more overall delegates than Obama does (1140-1150 for Clinton versus 1070 to 1080 for Obama). It's that close, folks

So, not counting the super-delegates, Obama got more?

Not bad

Cycloptichorn

but you agree that Hillary has more delgates than Obama correct?

How about you Free duck? I'd say I didn't mispost anything really... would you agree that Hillary has more delegates?

Uh, no, I wouldn't. The super-delegates don't count for anything.

Just like polling, they are a bunch of people who at some point said 'on Aug. whatever, I will vote for xxx.' They can still vote however they want. So I wouldn't count them yet.

Like counting chickens before they are hatched - never a good idea.

Cycloptichorn

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Hillary has a whole bunch of ways to win, even if she loses. The superdelegates is one. The other is to cry foul about the fact that Florida's and Michigan's delegates should be counted, even though they didn't follow party rules.

Even if Obama does eek out a win, he will end up on the losing end somehow. You'll see.

I am such a wet blanket.

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kickycan wrote:

Hillary has a whole bunch of ways to win, even if she loses. The superdelegates is one. The other is to cry foul about the fact that Florida's and Michigan's delegates should be counted, even though they didn't follow party rules.

Even if Obama does eek out a win, he will end up on the losing end somehow. You'll see.

I am such a wet blanket.

From a little birdie I know:

Quote:

Elaine Kamarck, who is on the DNC Rules Committee, and is my professor, told me there was literally zero chance that the DNC would count Florida and Michigan.

They will drag that out as long as possible in order to avoid having to make a choice which will be unpopular with half the party. If they can get either one of them to concede first, they will.

Cycloptichorn

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If Clinton Wins

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