I'm going To Switch My Support To John Edwards

If a white man had made a reference to black men and dance moves the outcry of stereotype would have been heard coast to coast. Barrack is black so he was able to get a pass on it, but he might as well have said something about checking out whether or not Bill could make the three point jumper and covered one of the other stereotypes.

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Since he was the one who had the misfortune of being asked the assinine question, I counted him ahead just being able to answer it at all while maintaining his dignity and injecting some humor.

What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

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Ramafuchs wrote:

By quoting with relevant link I bring the reality into limelight.
Neither in India where i was born nor in Germany where i live the definition of democracy is as a showy business as in USA.

And you are a willing participant in that showy limelight by exploiting and advertising your disdain for our flavor of democracy.

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snood wrote:

What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

"What a silly question. I'm not going to respond to such a question. I would like to talk about hope and change though."

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sozobe wrote:

I like a lot about her

Finn wrote:

Like what?

Her policies, mostly. What she says she'll do as president. A fair amount of her record, things that she's done so far.

sozobe wrote:

and I like that a woman is running who has a real shot,

Finn wrote:

Enough so that you will vote for her even though she depresses you with her tactics?

Not at all. If I vote for her, it will be very much in spite of that. But I have to look at the alternatives. If the alternative is Giuliani or Romney or Huckabee I go back to the policies. And I think they all would be much, much worse than Hillary, as much as she is distressing me. McCain I would think about seriously but ultimately I don't think I could vote for him. If there is a viable independent candidate, maybe. If there is a NON-viable independent candidate, maybe. I don't know. We'll see.

But one thing I definitely would not be doing is voting for Hillary simply because she's a woman.

sozobe wrote:

But if she wins dirty, because of things like purposely misrepresenting her opponents' positions and record -- well, I can't see myself voting Republican and I can't see myself not voting at all so I'll just have to rail against a stupid electoral system that rewards this kind of behavior.

Finn wrote:

Seems like a cop out. If she wins dirty by lying, it will not be the fault of the electoral system.

What's a better phrase? It will be the fault of voters. It will be the fault of the media. It will be rewarding behavior that I don't think should be rewarded, and making it more likely that it will recur -- it's what works.

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snood wrote:

Since he was the one who had the misfortune of being asked the assinine question, I counted him ahead just being able to answer it at all while maintaining his dignity and injecting some humor.

What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

True, the question was/is assoholic, but what do you expect of the mainstream media?

Before this current race, Bill Clinton was labeled the first black president and from black or white folks there wasn't one single squeak of protest-- now, Clinton's yesterdays news, someone who was liked well-enough by the black community but not the real thing. I find this turn about to be pretty shallow.

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maporsche wrote:

snood wrote:
What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

"What a silly question. I'm not going to respond to such a question. I would like to talk about hope and change though."

Excellent.

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Gala wrote:

maporsche wrote:
snood wrote:
What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

"What a silly question. I'm not going to respond to such a question. I would like to talk about hope and change though."

Excellent.

I liked his current answer better. This one would have seemed - rightly or wrongly - like a snippy dismissal of Bill, and it's not like he doesnt already talk about hope and change in every of his answers. The way he answered now, he deflected the assoholic question with humor, and therewith also helped to tamper down flaring tempers a bit.

And yes, Bear, there's always gonna be things that you can say about your own and not about other groups. Jewish comedians can crack 'Jewish' jokes that would seem spiteful from someone else; black hip-hopper calling each other niggaz isnt the same as when I would say it; Realjohnboy can ironically refer to himself as just another redneck when it would be pretty offensive if I called him one; etc etc.

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Gala wrote:

snood wrote:
Since he was the one who had the misfortune of being asked the assinine question, I counted him ahead just being able to answer it at all while maintaining his dignity and injecting some humor.

What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

True, the question was/is assoholic, but what do you expect of the mainstream media?

Before this current race, Bill Clinton was labeled the first black president and from black or white folks there wasn't one single squeak of protest-- now, Clinton's yesterdays news, someone who was liked well-enough by the black community but not the real thing. I find this turn about to be pretty shallow.

Good point.

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A clarification:

sozobe wrote:

sozobe wrote:
and I like that a woman is running who has a real shot,

Finn wrote:
Enough so that you will vote for her even though she depresses you with her tactics?

Not at all. If I vote for her, it will be very much in spite of that.

"That" here refers to the tactics that have been distressing me.

I won't vote for her simply because she's a woman. I don't see the fact that she's a woman as a problem, though, either.

Gala, couldn't the turn-about re: Bill have something to do with how he's been acting recently?

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nimh wrote:

Gala wrote:
maporsche wrote:
snood wrote:
What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

"What a silly question. I'm not going to respond to such a question. I would like to talk about hope and change though."

Excellent.

I liked his current answer better. This one would have seemed - rightly or wrongly - like a snippy dismissal of Bill, and it's not like he doesnt already talk about hope and change in every of his answers. The way he answered now, he deflected the assoholic question with humor, and therewith also helped to tamper down flaring tempers a bit.

And yes, Bear, there's always gonna be things that you can say about your own and not about other groups. Jewish comedians can crack 'Jewish' jokes that would seem spiteful from someone else; black hip-hopper calling each other niggaz isnt the same as when I would say it; Realjohnboy can ironically refer to himself as just another redneck when it would be pretty offensive if I called him one; etc etc.

no ****. My statement is still 100% correct. Obama may not be the only one to stoop to such tactics but he is the only one trying to run a campaign on "I don't stoop to such tactics". I wasn't offended by it, but it was not clever.... too easy. An accountant on stage at the local comedy club on amateur night would have made such a comment. If that's the best he can do he needs to go home. :wink:

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

If a white man had made a reference to black men and dance moves the outcry of stereotype would have been heard coast to coast. Barrack is black so he was able to get a pass on it, but he might as well have said something about checking out whether or not Bill could make the three point jumper and covered one of the other stereotypes.

A white man wouldn't have been asked that question.

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Enough so that you will vote for her even though she depresses you with her tactics?

There was a little crap game going on in the alley next to the local bar. Everyone knew the game was rigged. But, when asked why they continued to play, the general response was 'it was the only game in town'. :wink:

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snood wrote:

Since he was the one who had the misfortune of being asked the assinine question, I counted him ahead just being able to answer it at all while maintaining his dignity and injecting some humor.

What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

I agree. The answer was appropriate to the question. The dancing bit was merely irony, and it perfectly illustrated the foolishness of both the question and the basic proposition itself.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
If a white man had made a reference to black men and dance moves the outcry of stereotype would have been heard coast to coast. Barrack is black so he was able to get a pass on it, but he might as well have said something about checking out whether or not Bill could make the three point jumper and covered one of the other stereotypes.

A white man wouldn't have been asked that question.

bullshit. A reporter would have asked Bill clinton "Are you America's first black president" without hesitation and someone probably has at one point. If Bill Clinton said I don't know you'd have to check my dancing skills... the call of stereotype and racist remark would be deafening.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
If a white man had made a reference to black men and dance moves the outcry of stereotype would have been heard coast to coast. Barrack is black so he was able to get a pass on it, but he might as well have said something about checking out whether or not Bill could make the three point jumper and covered one of the other stereotypes.

A white man wouldn't have been asked that question.

bullshit. A reporter would have asked Bill clinton "Are you America's first black president" without hesitation and someone probably has at one point. If Bill Clinton said I don't know you'd have to check my dancing skills... the call of stereotype and racist remark would be deafening.

Cant' you just f*cking relax a bit with the indignation? Obama made a joke out of a stupid, meaningless question. What's wrong with that?

Cycloptichorn

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sozobe wrote:

Gala, couldn't the turn-about re: Bill have something to do with how he's been acting recently?

Recently? He's always acted up in someway.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
If a white man had made a reference to black men and dance moves the outcry of stereotype would have been heard coast to coast. Barrack is black so he was able to get a pass on it, but he might as well have said something about checking out whether or not Bill could make the three point jumper and covered one of the other stereotypes.

A white man wouldn't have been asked that question.

bullshit. A reporter would have asked Bill clinton "Are you America's first black president" without hesitation and someone probably has at one point. If Bill Clinton said I don't know you'd have to check my dancing skills... the call of stereotype and racist remark would be deafening.

Take a breather, cracker.

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I'm with Bi-polar on this; all this lovefest is a little hard to swallow without a bitter after taste.

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georgeob1 wrote:

snood wrote:
Since he was the one who had the misfortune of being asked the assinine question, I counted him ahead just being able to answer it at all while maintaining his dignity and injecting some humor.

What would have been an acceptable answer to "Was Bill Clinton the first black president?", in your estimation?

I agree. The answer was appropriate to the question. The dancing bit was merely irony, and it perfectly illustrated the foolishness of both the question and the basic proposition itself.

I completely agree with both of you. Easily the most idiotic question of the night... and he handled it fine. The 3 pointer or member measurement would have been fair play, since the idiocy was hurled at him in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to, but knew he couldn't, answer "Ah, no. Look at his skin you f*cking idiot". I would have laughed my ass off if he had, but I don't think it would have served him well. And frankly, that's not fair. Hence, using stereotypes that are off-limits to his opponents is fair trade.

On the greater issue; Soz and Georgeob1 both have this right. All you lefties jumping off Obama's bandwagon for swinging back should remember how Kerry faired after ignoring personal attacks. Seems to me; you unanimously agreed he should have mixed it up. Why should Obama have to ignore utter nonsense from both Clintons about his Iraq position, for instance? Here, Finn's got it completely right. As the high road candidate he's screwed either way. He can wear the mud or look bad in defense of it. Clinton, as the base-candidate, has far more immunity, since her overall campaign is negative in the first place (Fight, fight, fight the evil Republicans!) The hyper partisan peeps who respond positively to that kind of negativity are certainly not going to be as affected as those seeking a retreat from this kind of tactic. She's just tickling their love of the hate.

Edwards certainly profited from the exchange, but it was nothing he did, nothing he's above, and certainly no reason to credit him. He only avoided it because he was considered as relevant as Dennis Kucinich. Anybody who thinks a baby-channeling trial lawyer won't mix it up with the best of them (best mudslingers) if and when he becomes relevant is seriously diluted. This guy made a career out of painting innocent baby doctors as villains. Politicians would be like clay pigeons to a scumbag of his caliber.

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I'm going To Switch My Support To John Edwards

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