Major family feud

shewolfnm wrote:

Just because someone is "blood" does not mean that they deserve a forgiveness that you would not give anyone else.

I have always said that I am only interested in being friends with a relative, if I would want to be friends with him were he not related.

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I agree with Phoenix and the other posters who feel that "blood" does not mean automatic family feeling.

Since my mother died ten years ago, I have seen very little of my siblings. In an ideal world, they would be loveable/likable people with high ethical standards....but this isn't an ideal world.

Further, my Real World is much improved by keeping an emotional and geographical distance between us.

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My favorite saying is - You Don't Have To Answer Every Barking Dog.

Well, the nice thing is - YOU don't have to do anything!!

Just enjoy life and let him make the first move.

What's he gonna do, ask you for more of what's left?

He got his already.

YOU don't need to approach him or bring it up, or talk to him about this, if you don't want to.

Stay on the high ground - he's the one in the hole!!

PS - What if this "problem" was not in your life right now.
What would you be doing?
Then go and do that -
Don't waste your (life) time on all that negative thinking.

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Dant, I can see consulting with an attorney about this if the matter hasn't been entirely settled, though it sounds like it is (I may have read your post too fast to pick that up).

I see no reason to forgive the brother, in the light of what you describe, but I don't recommend long term anger either. As people are saying, that is corrosive to you and not even useful.

Certainly if you are feeling loss of your brother, then you have to figure out about what it is you want to do re anger or forgiveness or simply letting go.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Let it be. You can't put the **** back in the Donkey. It's only money, and it's gone. You wouldn't have sold your brother for money, so there's no sense hating him over it either. Forgive him and move on. Call him right now and wish him a Merry Christmas.

Occom Bill, I wish I could do just that, but it isn't that easy. I guess you'd have to be in my shoes (but I don't wish that on anyone!)

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JPB wrote:

What would you like to see happen?

You could demand an apology from your brother (if that would make you feel better) or you could write another letter and let them know how angry you are at their selfishness, but what would change?

You're still angry. An apology probably isn't forthcoming and you need to figure out what kind of relationship you want to have (if any) with your brother and sister-in-law.

Unfortunately in these cases, both sides tend to think they are 100% right. Other than swallowing your anger, which is admittedly difficult, or convincing your brother that he was an idiot, what type of compromise do you see?

JPB, what would I like to see happen? I guess the impossible. I'd like to hear him say he was sorry for doing what he did to mom and myself. I'd like him to explain just why he felt he had to do that to mom. I don't think he thinks he is 100% right - he won't talk to me or my daughter (his only niece) because I think he feels guilty. Getting down on their knees and begging for my forgiveness has a certain appeal. Seriously, a heartfelt apology would go a long way with me.

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Rockhead wrote:

I could not just forgive and forget here.

It's not about the money, it's about abuse. Many levels of that here.

Why do you want an apology? And if you get one, is everything roses again?

RH

RH, I see we think alike Smile

You're exactly right. It is about abuse - of trust, family bonds, mother's love, etc., I guess a REAL apology would help, if I knew he meant it. If I get one is everything roses? I don't think I could ever forget how he looked at me and said 'if you can't trust family you can't trust anyone' while he was plotting this the whole time. Permanent distrust is inevitable with this guy. It's been a couple of years now and I'm not as angry but I haven't forgotten a thing he did. His actions hurt not only me, but my daughter, who can't understand why he doesn't want to talk to her anymore. Even though she didn't do anything. So, no, won't be roses. Will always be thorns, but right now we have no relationship.

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shewolfnm wrote:

They will never give the money back.

He thinks he was smart in asking his mom for money. Since she had no clue what was going on, he knew it was guaranteed.
He is a scum bag and no amount of screaming, fighting, or writting letters is going to change that.

Even if he sold everything he bought with that money right now, he would never have the full amount.

Let him dwell in his " unearned income"

If you could.. write it off as a cash gift from your mom to him on her taxes.
make him pay for it if possible.

Im sorry you had to go through this.

shewolfnm, thank you for your reply - and thank you to all of you wonderful folks who replied. Each response has given me food for thought. Just wanted to say that before I respond to shewolfnm!

I've never been really close to my brother because he never put family first. Although I wondered at where his loyalties were at, I never suspected that he could be such a scum bag, but that is what he is. That's a hard thing to realize about one's relatives. I guess it takes money to bring out the creep in some people.

It's too late to do anything with taxes. I hope every time he looks at things he bought with mom's money it gives him a twinge, but I doubt he has a conscience.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm sorry I had to go through this too. I'm sorry for anyone who has to deal with this type of thing, and it's a heads-up for families. Don't trust that your (in general) family will do the right thing in this type of situation. Money does strange things to some people. I should have been more aware and it would not have happened.

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Dant,

You are right, we share some thoughts.

Money does strange things to most people, but it does not make them steal from people who love them....

Were I in your shoes, I would legally make sure what happened is documented, but I have a longterm perspective that you will have to gain on your own.

I am curious. Has this all come to pass with the will, and how was the lack of funds dealt with....

RH

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CalamityJane wrote:

Well, is it really that bad to be estranged from relatives, even if it happens
to be the only brother? I would not like to have contact to someone, regardless if brother or not, who would cheat out his elderly mother of
half of her net worth.

This was a very callous and selfish act, what makes anyone think
this brother has changed? All you'd get from him is more heartaches.
No thank you! would be my reply.

Good point, CalamityJane! It's still a painful situation - to me, anyway. I guess over the holidays these things bother me. I thought he might call and say he was sorry this Christmas, but I was dreaming. I've had to start thinking of him in a different light, one that isn't too flattering. The fact that he's my only sibling makes it difficult, but that's life isn't it?

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Mame wrote:

dant, you've had some good advice here. Question: does he expect to get half of what's left? Are you going to give it to him?

I'm glad you know him for the snake he is, but did you really not know this before?

I'm really sorry you're going through this, and agree with others that you need to do whatever it takes to relieve the anger and disappointment. You don't deserve to be carrying that around with you and it's like taint on your memories of your mother.

I also don't believe blood is thicker than water, but that's a choice you'll be making for yourself.

Mame, yes, I appreciate all the good advice here, and I am cogitating it. Does he expect to get what's left? No, he doesn't dare mention that to me. I will never give it to him. In fact, the money is in a trust for my daughter for her education and is out of his reach.

And no, I didn't know the extent of his snake-ishness. Some people don't reveal themselves until it's too late I guess. I believe his wife is a major component. She's a real keep-up-with-the-Joneses and he tries to appease her at any cost.

I have decided to have another service for mom, complete with people who weren't there for her funeral. It'll be the kind of send off she would have liked, in a place she loved. And minus brother and his wife. I was recovering from cerebral aneurysm surgery- which is pretty major - (that had not ruptured, thank God) eight weeks before mom died, so planning everything was beyond my scope at the time and brother didn't care; he just wanted a cheap send off without my uncles or any other family around. Now that I'm feeling more myself I can do what I should have done for her.

I don't think blood is thicker than water either. I wonder who came up with that saying.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Personally, I think that your brother and sister-in-law are thieves. I don't care if he is "blood". I would not want to have anything to do with a thief. He scammed your mom when she was at her most vulnerable. IMO, that is despicable.

I would "forgive" your brother in the sense that I would not dwell on the issue. I would just let it go, and be removed from my life. One does not need old hurts that dig at us. On the other hand, I would not continue any sort of relationship with him.

Who wants to be friends with a crook?

I agree completely with you. I don't want anything to do with such a person if he has not changed (and how do I know if he has?). He does not seem to want to be in any relationship with me. He has never phoned once since mom died or contacted me in anyway. Perhaps he knows he has no defense and is too bull headed to say he's sorry, who knows.

I don't let it dig at me.....it's just that around the holidays, well, you know.

We were good buddies when we were kids. It's sad that it's come to this.

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Re: Major family feud

dant wrote:

The point of all this rambling is that I cannot forgive brother for this behavior. This is my only sibling. I have received no apology from him or his wife; we barely spoke to one another at her funeral. I guess what pisses me off the most is that he didn't even talk to me before he nearly wiped out her account, he just took it like he was entitled or something. Should I have it out with him again? Or just let things sit? His wife is behind much of this. What to do?

I guess what bothers me most about your situation is that you still seem to have a lot of pent up anger for your brother. Ya see, it's not that I don't agree that he was a pure ass. But you have got to find a way to forgive him, not because he deserves it .....but because YOU deserve to move on. And I don't know if we can truly let something go that eats at us, without some measure of forgiveness.

I had to try and forgive a horrible wrong-doing once. I thought it was impossible. And maybe if I were to be completely honest with myself....deep down I still harbor some very bad thoughts towards him. But for the most part I have won that battle. All I can say to you is the best way to start that forgiveness process is to look at yourself in the mirror. Keep telling yourself that it's all for YOU. And when your brain understands that....it gets easier because then it becomes a fight to get your life back. The way it once was before somebody messed with you and caused all that inner strife.

You sound like a good person. I wish you the best.

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Noddy24 wrote:

I agree with Phoenix and the other posters who feel that "blood" does not mean automatic family feeling.

Since my mother died ten years ago, I have seen very little of my siblings. In an ideal world, they would be loveable/likable people with high ethical standards....but this isn't an ideal world.

Further, my Real World is much improved by keeping an emotional and geographical distance between us.

Yeah....The Ties That Bind And Gag, as Erma Bombeck used to say.

I just don't understand how he could treat his mother in such a way. She bent over backwards for him her whole life (the good Irish mother with an only son) and gets a kick in the backside for it. Is there a lesson here? Or is he a sociopath?

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SULLYFISH66 wrote:

My favorite saying is - You Don't Have To Answer Every Barking Dog.

Well, the nice thing is - YOU don't have to do anything!!

Just enjoy life and let him make the first move.

What's he gonna do, ask you for more of what's left?

He got his already.

YOU don't need to approach him or bring it up, or talk to him about this, if you don't want to.

Stay on the high ground - he's the one in the hole!!

PS - What if this "problem" was not in your life right now.
What would you be doing?
Then go and do that -
Don't waste your (life) time on all that negative thinking.

Sullyfish -

Great saying! I like it. I would have a hard time discussing this with him so he'll have to bring it up.

What would I be doing? I do have fine friends, and a loving husband and daughter, so I'm counting the positives. I haven't been able to do much the past year, and have had to take things slower. Too much sitting around causes thinking! But you're right. I won't waste my life on negative thinking. I got a new lease on life and I'm going to enjoy it!

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ossobuco wrote:

Dant, I can see consulting with an attorney about this if the matter hasn't been entirely settled, though it sounds like it is (I may have read your post too fast to pick that up).

I see no reason to forgive the brother, in the light of what you describe, but I don't recommend long term anger either. As people are saying, that is corrosive to you and not even useful.

Certainly if you are feeling loss of your brother, then you have to figure out about what it is you want to do re anger or forgiveness or simply letting go.

Ossobuco, the matter has been settled entirely so it's too late for an attorney. Once the money was gone there wasn't anything I could do.

Letting go is my gut feeling of what I should do. HOW to do that is what I am pondering. I'm not angry with him anymore (well, not AS much) but I am disappointed in him and ashamed that he's related to me. I see no reason to forgive him either.

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In order to let go of the feelings, realize that he's on a different path than you which includes this type of behaviour... this is his problem, not yours. You and your mother were honourable; he was not. He has to live with this knowledge, not you.

This is all his problem. The money is not an issue anymore. It's gone and so is your mother. What's important is what you do about it. Let it go, bring it up with him, let it fester...

If you try to disassociate yourself from this situation and see it from a distance (either space or time), you will get some good perspective on it. He's not related to you. He's not related to you. He's not related to you. Don't even give him another thought. And try not to judge. Who knows what prompted this action, and actually, who even cares? This is all his problem, not yours. He can't hurt your mother now and what is done is done.

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Nods with Mame, who spoke sharply but, I think, smartly.

You let go by moving on. Stop with the dwelling. Don't erase it, but move on. Don't deny anger, but stop with it, don't nuture it.

In times of most immediate anger, surely it is hard to erase. I'm a fan of long walks, others will have other suggestions. On the long walks, look around...

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dant wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Let it be. You can't put the **** back in the Donkey. It's only money, and it's gone. You wouldn't have sold your brother for money, so there's no sense hating him over it either. Forgive him and move on. Call him right now and wish him a Merry Christmas.

Occom Bill, I wish I could do just that, but it isn't that easy. I guess you'd have to be in my shoes (but I don't wish that on anyone!)

Who said anything about easy? My father hasn't talked to his sister in well over 20 years over a similar situation. I know her not at all. Having been made aware of the situation... and learning that it's quite common... I made a pact with myself many years ago to heed my Grandma's advice; "Don't ever worry too much about money... we can always get more money". She was poor, all her life, and never seemed to know it. She loved her people and they loved her (and we still do). She forgave everyone their wrong-doings, though she didn't hesitate one iota to tell anyone they were being an A-hole (like your brother clearly was)...

But unless that's the beginning and the end of your relationship with your brother... no-forgiveness will probably not be your friend. For decades now I can tell my dad would like to talk to his sister, but he's too damn stubborn. He'd tell you he'll die first and the sad truth is; he probably will. I know he loves her and misses her, even despite his spite. But what has his spite accomplished? What will yours? How many years do you wish to go without your brother? It seems obvious that there is zero chance of recidivism, so why not give forgiveness a chance?

I'm just a young old man thinking out loud, so only take in what makes sense to you. If he's truly a total dick, then by all means; good riddance to him.

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dant wrote:

JPB, what would I like to see happen? I guess the impossible. I'd like to hear him say he was sorry for doing what he did to mom and myself. I'd like him to explain just why he felt he had to do that to mom. I don't think he thinks he is 100% right - he won't talk to me or my daughter (his only niece) because I think he feels guilty. Getting down on their knees and begging for my forgiveness has a certain appeal. Seriously, a heartfelt apology would go a long way with me.

Why not put these thoughts in a letter to him. Perhaps take out the begging part. Let him know that you care about him and would like to still be a family. And then leave it in his ballpark.

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