0
   

My Name is Muhammed

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 01:55 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
A lot of people may agree with that but she is a decent person trying to do the best for local children and had no idea how vicious religion can be.


this is a TEACHER who had no idea what she was going into? She doesn't read? No access to the internet or tv, or radio, or media of any kind?

A decent person to be sure... trying to do right no doubt.... but ignorant of conditions in backasswards countries that are loudly islamic fundamentalists? come on, man......

I have seen enuf screw-up human stupidity by now
that seeing it manifested in any new instances does not SURPRIZE me, Bear.

Like people who just ASSUME that thay r ALWAYS safe
( as the teacher did ) and walk around unarmed.
David
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 02:02 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Well, while I think it's totally ridiculous to punish her, she lives there and should understand and know their customs and beliefs.


So what about the 100,000,000+ islamofascists named Muhammed?
every muslim has, as some part of his name. Mohammed. Your point is?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 02:31 pm
dyslexia wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Well, while I think it's totally ridiculous to punish her, she lives there and should understand and know their customs and beliefs.


So what about the 100,000,000+ islamofascists named Muhammed?
every muslim has, as some part of his name. Mohammed. Your point is?

Maybe it cud be possible that his point is
that when all those Mohammads vote to name the imitaition bear MOHAMMAD,
it shud not come as a big surprize,
and be rejected out-of-hand as being unreasonable.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:07 am
Quote:
There's far more to Islam than a teddy

Ed Husain
Sunday December 2, 2007
The Observer

Twenty out of 23 children chose to name their class teddy bear Muhammad. A rather sweet gesture, I think. But no. In ultra-sensitive Sudan, parents and a staff member decided to complain against what they saw as a white, female, infidel British teacher insulting their religion. What was an innocent classroom gesture was, yet again, hijacked by Muslim extremists to threats of floggings and demands of shooting after Friday prayers in Khartoum last week.

Last year, it was the Danish cartoons. This year it is a teddy bear. What next? And why this repeated madness? For me, it is not about the possible offence taken at perceived negative portrayals of Islamic symbols, but the repeated calls for death, lashings and stoning. The medieval, literalist mindset that fails to comprehend the inhumane nature of these brutal and barbaric acts, often carried out against the defenceless, is the crux of the matter.

The Western media are right to hold a mirror to educated Muslims by highlighting these outdated practices. Only a week ago, a young Saudi gang rape victim, rather than being counselled and loved, was sentenced to 200 lashes. If the young lady had been a wealthy Saudi with powerful connections, she would have escaped her punishment. Similarly, if Gillian Gibson had not been British, there would not have been an outcry. When Muslims want to appear sanctimonious about newspaper cartoons or a teddy bear, I ask where are the mass protests against the Saudi Wahhabite destruction of the birthplace of Muhammad in Mecca? Or systematic annihilation of Muslim heritage in Medina? Or the organised desecration of the Prophet's family's tombs across Saudi Arabia? We should not be hypocritical in our choice of protest. Mainstream Muslims cannot remain silent as our faith is destroyed by extremists from within, and mocked by agenda-driven, habitual Islam-haters from without. We must have the courage to stand and reclaim our faith.

I write this from a conference in Madrid, a city, like my home, London, that has suffered immensely from the Islamist-jihadist rage. The ubiquitous question here has been: where is the voice of the Muslim majority? Part of the answer is that it is buried in fear of extremist reprisals and concern at breaking ranks with fellow Muslims only to be attacked by fundamentalist atheists for not going far enough.

Last week, I faced former Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who levelled exactly that criticism at me. How could I possibly believe? Another renowned British liberal called Islam 'gobbledegook'. Tomorrow, I meet Martin Amis, who has found Islam a convenient whipping boy for all things religious. The contempt for Christianity is just as ferocious. Despite being caught in crossfire between two extremes, I believe in a Muslim tradition, a spiritual path, that can bring harmony between Islam and the West and thereby rescue millions from misery, rigidity and oppression.

If anything, the modern West stems from a Judaeo-Christian-Islamic heritage. More than ever, Western Muslims need to stop viewing the world through bipolarised lenses and assert our Western belonging.

The Spanish Muslim jurist, Imam Shatibi, who died in 1388, articulated the aims of the shariah as preservation of life, honour, property, religion and reason. Leading Muslim scholars in the Arab world today compound this classical Islamic approach. That's not to hide the reality of religious scripture, compiled in a world radically different from ours. Just as in Leviticus we find references to stoning sinners, in Muslim scripture there are some unpalatable references. But these are to be seen in the context of their time. What remain valid are the eternal truths that Shatibi, Locke and others enunciated. Our humanity must transcend adherence to scriptural literalism, especially if it leads to mayhem and loss of innocent lives. The whole purpose of religion is to bring order and harmony to our existence.

Islam is not a monolithic entity. Inherent within Muslim tradition is a plurality of thought, practice and reasoning that can help create a genuine Muslim renaissance or tajdid in Arabic. Just as scriptural references to stoning and flogging are cited by countries such as Saudi Arabia as justification for their horrid practices, in these same texts, we find that the Prophet Muhammad reprimanded his followers for stoning a person who attempted to flee. He also condemned those who killed innocent people. By drawing on these lessons, mainstream Muslims must illustrate that compassion, humanity and sense should override scriptural rigidity understood with anger and revenge.

More than any other Muslim community across the world, those of us who were born, raised and educated in the west have access to both cultures: Islam and the west. It is my generation that can bridge the gap between what seem like warring parties. Our arguments carry greater weight in the Muslim East. Western Muslims have a duty to continue developing what is a nascent phenomenon: Western Islam. We have no choice but to find common ground between our faith and our culture, Islam and the West, and then offer an alternative path to our brethren in the Muslim East.

The presence of millions of Muslims in the West is an asset with which we can bring civilisational harmony. But Western Muslims must, in the words of Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, 'build our home together' with fellow citizens of all and no faith. It is our common bond, being human, which comes first. Our future must be a negotiated one. The Koran repeatedly calls us to think, contemplate and reflect. For how much longer will we be the laughing stock of the world? And all over a teddy bear.

· Ed Husain is author of The Islamist
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:25 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
There's far more to Islam than a teddy


Yeah; boms, lots of boms
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:50 am
Quote:
every muslim has, as some part of his name. Mohammed. Your point is?
We wonder how they could put the holy name on something as pathetic as a human being.

Joe(and, by the way, it's only Muslim men who are so entitled)Nation
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 08:24 am
Jesus came to visit me by the pool one time. I was just lying there soaking up some sun and he appeared. We chatted for awhile, about the usual things, money, women, guy stuff.

I finally decided to really test him and asked him the meaning of life.

He said "I'll think about it while I finish mowing your lawn".
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:56 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
The British Government should deliver an ultimatum to the Sudanese Govt. that unless Ms Gibbons is released unharmed within 36 hours all diplomatic and economic/trade functions with Sudan will cease. And the EU should back it.

If Gibbons is harmed in anyway, we will sequestrate any Sudanese assets in UK, arrest and imprison Sudanese diplomatic staff, and expell all Sudanese nationals.

And if it comes to it declare war.


I honestly wonder about your reaction re the recent announcement that the US has the right to kidnap any British citizen.



Oh, sorry. They are no idiotic Islamists. They can do so.


Excuse the interruption.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 02:31 pm
nobody has been threatened with flogging or imprisonment in the recent "book banning" incident , but it illustrates that stupid and intolerant people live in all kinds of countries (and canada is supposed to be an "enlightened" country :wink: ) .
it certainly gave plenty of publicity to the book !
hbg


Quote:
The Golden Compass banned by Catholic school board
Here we go again. From the Toronto Star:

Halton's Catholic board has pulled The Golden Compass fantasy book - soon to be a Hollywood blockbuster starring Nicole Kidman - off school library shelves because of a complaint.

Two other books in the trilogy by British author Philip Pullman have also been removed as a precaution, and principals have been ordered not to distribute December Scholastic book flyers because The Golden Compass is available to order.

"(The complaint) came out of interviews that Philip Pullman had done, where he stated that he is an atheist and that he supports that," said Scott Millard, the board's manager of library services.

It's not like there's never a valid reason to keep a particular book out of a school library - no one blinks at the fact that middle-school kids can't sign out The Story of O, for example - but haven't school boards been burned enough by this kind of thing to know not to do something so drastic and negative-publicity-generating without a little sober second thought?

Oh well, we'll let you know when the book is - inevitably - allowed back on the shelves by some red-faced administrators. I'm sure their phone lines are already feeling the burn.



source :
GOLDEN COMPASS
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 07:21 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
The British Government should deliver an ultimatum to the Sudanese Govt. that unless Ms Gibbons is released unharmed within 36 hours all diplomatic and economic/trade functions with Sudan will cease. And the EU should back it.

If Gibbons is harmed in anyway, we will sequestrate any Sudanese assets in UK, arrest and imprison Sudanese diplomatic staff, and expell all Sudanese nationals.

And if it comes to it declare war.


I honestly wonder about your reaction re the recent
announcement that the US has the right to kidnap any British citizen.


Oh, sorry. They are no idiotic Islamists. They can do so.


Excuse the interruption.

Excuse me, Walter.
I must have missed something.

When, from whom, and under what circumstances was there an
announcement that the US has the right to kidnap any British citizen ?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 12:24 am
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I must have missed something.
When, from whom, and under what circumstances was there an
announcement that the US has the right to kidnap any British citizen ?


In the papers yesterday (and today). Not "any" but any foreign citizens who the United States thinks to have done crimes. (Sorry, I said 'British' because that announcement was done in a British court.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 02:49 am
BBC:
Quote:
Monday, 3 December 2007, 08:47 GMT

Teacher Gillian Gibbons is to be released from prison in Sudan after she was jailed for allowing children in her class to name a teddy bear Muhammad.
...
Sudan's President Omar al-Bashir pardoned her after a meeting with two British Muslim peers, Lord Ahmed and Baroness Warsi.
[...]
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 04:33 am
Now get her, and anybody else who isn't willing to live in the 14th Century, out of there.

Would all followers of the peaceful, loving, all-forgiving Poofster, please start acting peaceful, loving and all-forgiving?

Joe(pretty please)Nation
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 06:10 am
Actually I dont think God is too bothered about the name of a Teddy bear.

Those who do care about such things, tend to be the same people who exploit this and any other opportunity for political points-scoring against Britain and the West.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 06:48 am
All islamofacsts and supporters need to do a Google image search on "the best way to heal black eyes". Laughing
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 07:03 am
Quote:
Yeah...reminds me a lot of christianity. Have a look at the bible some time. And the 'conversions" in the lands conquered by christians...like South America.

It's been an endless argument here to see who can quote more outrageously barbarous bits of the respective holy texts. I am not sure who won, but it was sure a hell of a shocker on both sides.

It's quite true that Christianity has a bloodthirsty history. However, the new testament, upon which Christianity is based, isn't of itself bloodthirsty…quite the opposite really (except perhaps for revelations).

It's also true that the bible (or the old testament at least) contains some rather blood thirsty stuff.

The differences include :

- Christianity accepts secular rule, while to Islam religion and government are one and the same (I read this in commentary from Muslims, and it seems consistent with what I know).

- The founder of Christianity, Christ preached love your neighbour as yourself; the founder of Islam, Mohammed preached that it was a holy duty to convert by any means necessary, including force if necessary (ie convert or die)

- Christianity does not divide the world into the abode of Christianity and the abode of war (I would have taken the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War as colloquial except for the prophets other commands)

Quote:
I have the book by the woman in Holland who says that Islam is inherently scary, apparently more so than other religions, so I will be interested to read that.


Have you read it Vikorr?

No. While I think Islam is dangerous, I do try to find balance in my views. I've read other books by Muslims talking about their beliefs. They of course don't mention the parts I find dangerous, and I would take that at face value if all muslims were so inclined, but enough of them put faith in the original precepts that it is simply dangerous - I've read sources that estimate 10% of the Islamic world is radicalised, and even just 10% equals about 100,000,000 of them.
0 Replies
 
Bohne
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 07:25 am
[quote="Walter Hinteler"]As does the British law that considers it as an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British king or queen's image upside-down. Or that you must be 21 to drinl alcohol in a pub or ...[/quote]

I have done that many a times just for the hell of it!!!

The drinking, too, actually..
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 07:45 am
I think one of the first 'illegal' things I did in England, 44 years ago, was doing the stamp-thing.

What I noticed in the USA, though, I'm not sure if I really had tried underage drinking there - same in Britain (where it was 18) in those good old days.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 08:45 am
But wearing a bear suit and wandering around an art gallery in Berlin can win a prize

Quote:
This year, Mark Wallinger, hot favourite for the 2007 prize, has entered a single work - a video of himself dressed in a furry bear suit wandering as if in a daze around a modern art gallery in Berlin.


presumably he made it quite clear he was not Mohammed.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2007 09:03 am
Actually its only treason for a British citizen to stick a stamp on upsidedown. (there is also a scale of punishment according to the angle of deviation from vertical)

I have never done this and never will. On all my letters her majesty's head is perfectly upright....


which reminds me of a couple of stories (both true) about our wonderful Royal Mail. One post man had to deliver a lot of cds to a house. He couldnt get them through the box so he left them in the dustbin (garbage can) with a note through the door explaining where they were. By the time the woman got the note....you guessed...the refuse collectors had done their job..

This was told to me the other day by my friend the ex postman. He had to deliver an item from a popular mail order company (womens fashions). No reply at the door, but he saw an upstairs window open. Being canadian and quite a good baseball player, he took aim and lobbed it straight through the open window. He said he felt pretty good about it. When he'd finished his round he was called into the managers office told never to do anything like that again. The woman worked nights and was asleep in a chair upstairs. The parcel landed straight in her lap. As I said, ex postman.
0 Replies
 
 

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