I'm confused

Awwwwwww man Wilso - I share yr pain !!

Maybe the girl she takes of is really ill, and her mind is too distracted.

I don't know much abt women (who does ?) so I wont offer any more.

Chin up mate !!

Oh Wilso - I don't know! Avoid that name, for god's sake!

Keep trying - nothing ventured etc.

Without knowing you way better than I do, I have no way of knowing if you are doing something that sometimes sort of creates problems, somehow, or if you have just had one of those horrid runs of bad luck.

Do you have any good friends, male or female, who will be very honest and might be able to give you any feedback?

I know this is one of those bastardly things people say - but it really is true, often, that stuff happens when you are not looking so hard. I know I get skittery if somebody comes on too intense, in a needy sort of way, too soon - though I know you have tried really clearly not to do that.

Can you just aim at maximising fun social contacts at uni - like you did with the study group?

If I were good at getting romantic relationships to last, I might have something more useful to say! I am sure that others will.

I am so sorry you have been disappointed again. Waaaaah!

Wilso, I have to be straightforward here. My guess, women treat you like dirt because you are too clingy. Wimmins be complicated....they want sensitivity and attention, but they also want a MAN.

"Find the balance 'tween all three,
then you'll have the loving key." (an original)

It is obvious that this particular woman is not interested in your attentions. It sounds like she was simply using you to pass the exams. It happens, but it's nothing to get wrapped up over. No near-stranger is worth that.

I only know this, as your uni dating life sounds strangely like mine and my wife has taught me a lot....bless her.

How can you be seen as clingy when you see a person once a week.

I can assure you that is the exact opposite of me.

Let me rephrase....there is a slight obsessiveness running through your entire post....the over-attention to someone you only see once a week, i.e. the cards, the flowers, the discussions regarding "friendship", which, to most guys I know, means, "I still want to date you", and to women means "How do I let him down gently?" Whether or not YOU are clingy, it is the perception of 'clinginess' that matters to a woman you are trying to date. Unfortunately, that is not always under your control.

When I said I was happy with friendship, I meant it.

Why is that so hard to believe?

And maybe someone can explain the actions of the one I met at a SINGLES DINNER, who gave me a false phone number.

I think you took her agreement to dinner as something more than it was, and at that point, began making heavy investments in her. This is where Cav's assessment comes into play. Even though you sound like what many women are dreaming of--a sensitive, analytical pursuer, who keeps their cards on the table--so early in the game, you want to hold back the deeper stuff and keep some of those cards close to the vest.

You may have been on the path to a comfortable friendship, which could have grown into more, but you seemed sort of impatient. There was nothing wrong with the invitation to dinner--but you sort of jumped on it with both feet when she said OK. Flowers! Cards! Recriminations! Of course, the things you did sound great, and if you and she had felt the same way, it could have been the beginning of a great relationship.

BOTTOM LINE: I guess its ideal to hold yourself in a more detached, emotionally safer place, at least until you know the object of your affection is also similarly interested.

ADVICE: Never have the "I'd rather keep the friendship if you don't want to date" convo, again. It sounds sort of desperate at the beginning of a dating attempt.

The bunny's right. Relax. Don't look for datables, and think too much about it. Flow. Good things will happen for you!!! :wink:

Refreshed and see Wilso's question: When I said I was happy with friendship, I meant it. Why is that so hard to believe?
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It makes the woman percieve that you are sort of desperate, and have put too much thought (pressure) into asking her for a date.

In other words

WOMEN DON'T KNOW WHAT THE **** THEY WANT.

Sorry, but I've had a gutful of being treated like **** by ******* molls

Wilso - if you want to be angry for a while, be angry - but maybe try not to let it take over for too long, eh?

Some women play games.

Some men play games.

Women often feel that men don't know what the **** they want, too.

The whole approach/retreat/am I interested/am I not time is full of odd sensitivities and nuance, and by no means entirely rational.

The mating game can suck.

But - people are really trying to be helpful here, and doing the whole angry/women suck stuff for long won't help a lot.

From what has been offered here, I think it is entirely possible that the woman in question was not playing games. This is the kind of thing that makes male/female friendships almost impossible.

If you are looking for a tutor, you should be able to ask male or female. Unless this woman flirted with Wilso, or pretended to be interested in that way to trick him into tutoring--what is her crime?

I think the worst thing she did was not make a point to thank him for the flowers before he called. (I don't know--she may have had a reasonable excuse --illness or something was mentioned.) If I'd received flowers from a guy I went to school with, who had tutored me, who had asked me out and was acting sort of proprietary in a way that was making me uncomfortable--I would not call to thank him (and mislead him about my feelings); I'd wait until the next time I saw him. And, then, you don't want to embarrass yourself or the flower-giver by thanking in front of other people--and you are really uncomfortable about choosing your words carefully. If you are interesting in pursuing with the flower-giver--it is easy to formulate the thank you--if you aren't interested in pursuing--this is a very difficult situation.

I'd hate for Wilso, or any other guy to think when a woman doesn't respond the way they think she should--that they have been used or insulted if it isn't the case.

But, I can easily understand Wilso's frustration.

I think you can Cav have pretty well covered the ground, Sophia.

Cav is right on.

1) Although you don't think so, I thought you sounded a little desperate and clingy. Running out and buying flowers? Even though it's a nice gesture, the woman sees it as "ok...this guy wants me...who's next?"
2) Dinner is NOT a good first date, man. Take her out to coffee or a drink. Limit the date to a short time, and you cut it off first, so it looks like you're not desperate, and are a busy guy who has a life.

Flowers and dinners are for women who have already shown you interest in the best way(**cough cough SEX**). Of course women will jump down my throat for saying that...but listen: you don't need to kiss a women's ass to get them in bed, you do it with your great personality.

Women like a confident guy who comes across like he doesn't NEED them...you wanna make it look like she has to chase you, not the other way around. The reason why you tanked, like every other "nice guy," is because when you bought her flowers, you took all the mystery and intrigue out of the situation.

Unfortunately whether you like it or not, dating IS a game, and everybody plays the game at some level. Don't worry about that chick..she's a waste of time who couldn't give you the courtesy of a "thank you."

Bummer, Wilso. Women can be horrible to men and most horrid to the nicest ones. I know, I've done it. When I was younger and a guy seemed too eager, I freaked out. No way was I going to be interested. Instead, I was interested in the good-looking guy who sat close to the lecturer, who didn't pay attention to the other women (so I wasn't jealous) but he didn't pay attention to me (WHAT????) and got top grades, had smart things to say in class.

At this stage of the relationship (next to none) the flowers & card were a mistake. They'd be perfect if you were married, though IMO a romantic card, even just a "nice" card, is always a mistake. (Your thoughts are always better than some Hallmark card hacks words.) Much better to hand-write a note, and if it has to be in a card, find one that makes her smile.

Have you ever seen the movie, The Tao of Steve? There is a fairly clear-cut explanation of the relationship between women & men that might help out. According to the "hero" - Dex, you have to not just act disinterested, you have to BE disinterested, but cool.

Here is the Tao of Steve: Be a "Steve," not a "Stu."



You started out right by demonstrating something excellent... then you "wanted to be friends with her." A big mistake... instead, remember you are the lone wolf. You are satisfied with your life -- you exude self-reliance. Wait until a woman comes on to you... then you must not only act, but BE disinterested. You have a full life. It does not include her - no explanations. Make her wish it did. Let her coax you into a relationship. The important thing is that you have to not just play-act this... you have to feel it to your core. Actually, your being angry is a good thing. Think of it this way, women are just too damn much trouble to bother with. Then, be excellent in their presence.

Anyway, the movie is funny and will give you something to do while you're home. (Plus you can pick apart this philosophy better if you've seen the film.)


Remember, you are in the perfect position to be excellent in the presence of women. You're at the uni! You're smart. You're getting great grades! You've got a job that pays well, a house. Things are good! That woman was not for you, the one who is for you will show up and she'll be intensely interested in you. Wait for her and let her woo you.

For the (broken) record, this is NOT always true.

(I'm thinking that Slappy and I should team up for an advice column... he'd always say you gotta play the game, be mysterious, yadda yadda, and I'd always say enough with the plotting, go ahead and be sweet if you want to, and somewhere in the middle would lie the truth.)

Excellent advice!!! Piffka be right.

I SO loved the Tao of Steve!!! It has steps and everything!!! And, what can I say--It is perfect in logic and strategy!!!

You can google the movie title and get the steps, but the movie is a must see.

Soz...read what piffika wrote!! That's coming from a female! I didn't make it up, it's true. Ok, so SOMETIMES buying flowers "might" woo the girl. But if he didn't, is he really hurting the cause? Not being a kiss ass is never going to hurt you, but being one 99% of the time will.

Sweet things like that should be used sparingly, not thrown down the woman's throat before you even start a relationship.

Let's start the column.

Soz, I would vote for the truth being somewhere in the middle of all things in general. It seems to me that Wilso's situation is a matter of misunderstood perception on both sides as regards intent...hell knows, I've in the same spot before. In my past, I have been overly friendly with women, and creeped them out, and I have also been so much the 'friend', women who actually wanted me ended up thinking I was gay. Slappy may not always be subtle, but I think he is on the mark about 'game'. I get that concept. If at first you don't succeed, change your approach. Nothing wrong with that, and it's better than letting a bad situation get to you.