I'm confused

Wilso, The Tao of Steve is excellent (just saw the post) Definitely see it...

...except that an approach might work just fine with the next woman. Or even more specifically, that the approach may work with the kind of woman he wants to have a relationship with, and not with the kind that he doesn't.

It's all a crapshoot.

I'm just here to offer a little perspective from a woman's point of view with yet another personal story that may or may not have any relevance to the situation. What the heck...

I am a pretty straightforward person and I don't think any man would describe me as a game player. About 10 years ago, a friend of mine wanted me to meet her new boyfriend so she took me over to his house one afternoon. He was there as was his cousin, Matt. We hung out that afternoon and had a nice friendly time. Matt said 'Well, we should hang out together sometime". At the time, I thought this was a simple statement, as I figured I'd see him again in the circle of friends because of my friend's new boyfriend.

I had started dating a new guy. I had mentioned him in passing in conversation, and we all talked about work, etc.. Well, a few days later, Matt showed up at my retail job with flowers. I was honestly floored. I hadn't been flirting with him (I didn't think - I was crazy about my new man) and hadn't made any mention of definately wanting to see him again outside of a group social setting. I was incredibly uncomfortable and just mumbled a thank you - then I asked him what the hell he was doing showing up at my work with presents for me - I hardly knew him.

He was pretty pissed off, thinking me 'ungrateful', and I saw him again he was generally grumpy and anti-social. Over time we became friends and I am close friends with him now.

The moral? I was a bit put out by feeling that he had expectations of me that I hadn't indicated I wanted any involvement with. Add a sentimental gift to that and I wanted to run screaming. He saw it as a thoughtful gesture, I saw it as an aggresive attempt to involve me in a relationship I didn't want to be involved in.

People are different and read signs in different ways.

Good luck, Wilso. Please don't get discouraged -we're not all bad.

I think Sugar once again has been very relevant, especially with her moral. I also think she and Mrs. cav share a soul, but that's another story.

Mrs. cav was interested in me, and I liked her just fine too, but we were pretty much strangers. Thing was, she thought I hated her, because of my generally aloof manner, and occasionally penetrating glare (so she says....I was just looking at her in an admiring way, to the best of my ability ). We met at a martial arts school, so the situation was social, like uni. The school had a pot-luck gathering and I made a chocolate cheescake, which I brought in a proper bakery box, as I was selling baked goods at the time. She looked at the box and said "What is it?" I said "Chocolate cheesecake, I made it." She said "No you didn't. I see the box." (Okay, at this point, I am getting a little pissed off, but I am stubborn) "I have my own catering company, that's why I have the box." She says: "Well, I hate cheesecake anyway." I say, "You haven't tried mine, have you?"

When the desserts were served, she did indeed try some of my chocolate cheesecake. She pondered for a bit, then asked me "This isn't Belgian chocolate, is it?" I said "No, actually, it's French." She said "I knew it wasn't Belgian because if it had been, I would be orgasming all over the table right now."

Well....the rest as they say is history. Moral: Often love hits you when you least expect it. Try to force it, it won't happen.

I missed this the first time...

A few ways I met boyfriends:

1.) We were taking a class together. He asked if I wanted to study with him (and some others). I said "sure." I thought he was cute. He asked me to dinner. I said "sure." We went to dinner. He showed up with flowers when he picked me up. I thought he was adorable. Went out for a while.

2.) I have asked out a couple, which renders the other stuff moot.

3.) We barely knew each other, were hanging out in a general way (with other people as well), when he wrote a very sweet, personal, and romantic poem and put it in my room. I found it, loved it, and we never got around to an official date, I don't think... started hanging out more, then started messing around. That's the one I married.

He was a MAJOR kiss-ass, and wouldn't have been on my radar at all if he had just hung around striking poses and hoping I'd notice him.

My take on the Wilso situation in a minute (want to re-read.)

First, I don't think she was purposely playing games.

Second, people seem to be overlooking that she had agreed to go out to dinner with him. That's something. He made a point of saying no pressure, if you'd prefer to just remain friends, that's cool, and she still said that dinner would be nice.

Once she had already expressed interest in having dinner with him, explicitly in terms of friendship or dinner (i.e. not one of those lame "just grabbing a bite to eat as friends" thing), she already knew he was romantically interested in her. If she said she had been very ill, a get-well card and flowers are a nice gesture.

Now, at that point, the other stuff that Piffka says kicks in. Wilso had made two moves -- asking her out to dinner and flowers/card -- and it was her turn to do something. If she doesn't, then it's time to walk away from it.

I think the main issue here is just getting too emotionally involved before there is anything to be emotionally involved in. But I don't think the asking out to dinner/ card and flowers were bad in and of themselves.

If she hadn't been sick, she wouldn't have got the flowers.
The card was a 1.5 by 3 inch piece of cardboard, on which I wrote "HOpe you feel better soon"
I qualified the request for dinner with an offer of continued friendship in order to make the point that I didn't start studying with her just for the purpose of finding a partner. And I meant it.
Sitting down 2 feet away from someone and refusing to even say hello is plain ******* rude. Regardless of the circumstances.

<nudge> Yes we are!


Thanks Sophia, Slappy, Cav) for not thinking I'm all wet about the Tao of Steve. Even in the movie, the concept worked when the lady out-Steved him. She was...she had to be for it to work... totally genuine.

Gotta be genuine, like the cheesecake. Cav, teehee, talk about a flirt! I wondered what you said next? [size=7]C'mere baby and let me show you some Belgian chocolate... [/size]

Whoever said the first date should be a more casual get together than dinner was right on.

It is true, as Sozobe says, that the one who spurned Wilso did agree to meet up with him, even suggested dinner. So what was she thinking about? Maybe she changed her mind in the interim or else she isn't good at saying no. Nobody said it would be easy. I wondered why Wilso that you didn't immediately follow-up if you were interested. That would have shown confidence. Throw your hat in the ring if you have to, but don't send 'em flowers until cough, cough, cough. Actually, even those flowers should be given face-to-face.

Gee, Wilso. Aren't you glad you asked? I'm looking forward to a Slap-zobe column.


Piffka's Flower ABCS:
A fragrant single flower may be bought for her pleasure during a date.
Bouquets of flowers are given face-to-face when calling on her.
Celebrate special anniversaries with sent flowers. Belgian chocolate also good. :wink:
Send live plants for health. Fruit basket also good.

edited: Oooh, Wilso. Just saw your comment. Yes. She was RUDE. Don't pick one like that, next time.

She was SICK. At one point it was suspected meningitis. She wasn't going anywhere, with me or anyone else. I just thought the flowers might brighten her day a little.

I din't follow up straight away because we were in week of FINAL EXAMS. OUr minds were on other things.

Hey Slap, flowers are for funerals. Maybe she thought you wanted her dead and this frightened her. Or she may be a psychopath. In any case, there's plenty of fish out there. Just try to find one that doesn't stink.

After reading all the responses, it can be summed up in one sentence...

Women (and in most cases gay men) are like flies - u chase them, u can't catch them, you do nothing, they come and sit on yr nose !!

What a lovely thought!

I'm so sorry Wilso :-(

Thanks.

ps. You're not included in the above description sweetheart.

Nice guys finish last. Sounds bad, but the addiction to intrigue
is a lot stronger than plain, undramatic honesty.

A survey I read showed that guys, on average, offer 300 times before one acceptance. The only way to possibly handle that kind of massive rejection is to not care. Don't care!

When you're around people, do whatever you damn well please.
Expect that women will do whatever they damn well please.
That's just life.
Cut loose and have fun! And keep cutting loose.

Like any salesperson who deals with thousands of leads,
if you're going to offer something 300 times, don't get even the
slightest bit invested until *after* someone shows very strong interest.
It's the only way you can survive it.

Luckily I haven't invested any emotions in her. I'm just pissed off with the way she's treated me.

And for good reason, Wilso.
So sorry to hear about this. It happens to us all, I'm afraid, women as well as men. Neither sex has a monopoly on f**kwitted behavior. (I love that word...f**kwit...it's from "Bridget Jones' Diary.)

The amount of time it has happened to me is amazing. I mean with one man we went even one step further of snogging like mad - and then he says that he wants to be just a friend

Not for good reason. F*ck her...don't let some woman who ignored you ruin 3 seconds of your day. Until she proves otherwise, she's not worth your time.