Schwarzenegger Announces : Running for CA Gov.

c.i.--

I thought most of the jokes were riotous! I can just see someone, oh I don't know, A CONSERVATIVE, making the German/civil liberties joke, taking issue with the German connection of a liberal candidate , and being castigated by people like you, Maher and LW. :wink:

Plus. I think it's wrong. But-- no matter. Just wanted my opinion on the record.

Carry on.

Plug in. Tune out.


Anybody heard stuff about the actual issues that Arnold seeks to solve?
Laughing about his name or personality is nice, but we've got a government to run.

Not to the Holocaust, no, but to fascism, yeh. Hyperbole, classic tool of comedians.

Ashcroft probly wouldnt like the joke. But how would a random reference to fascism in itself be insulting to Germany?

Concerning the rest of the jokes, Letterman and Leno must constitute one of the most blatant manifestations of the American-European cultural gap. Sure, Germans, Italians and French dont really get each others' humour either, but everyone likes British humour. Whereas in all my life I only ever encountered one European who thought Letterman was funny (most of the rest consider him and Leno slow, cowardly and boring) - while even the most intelligent Americans I've met turned out to love him. <shakes head in incomprehension>

c.i. -- haven't entirely made up my mind -- depends on what Grey Davis says in the next few weeks. Bustamante is looking good but he looked good when I voted for him as Lt. Governor.

(I wouldn't vote for Ahhnold to run an outhouse -- just the idea that the was instrumental in running a restaurant chain into bankruptcy is enough to nix his chances. I think the largest muscle is between his ears).

He equated Germany to fascism. I thought it was mean--not so much to Arnold, not so much to Bush's language snafus--but to Germany; getting laughs by tapping in to the neverending ethnic/national insult.

As I said-- I believe Maher was given a pass, and others wouldn't get the same pass.

Sofia, Fact is, most people read a joke, laugh, then immediately forget it. c.i.

Hmmm .... I had to really think for a while to get your argument, I must admit! :-)

I think I got it, now, though. But I dont think the joke can be said to equate Germany as such with fascism. What it implies is more specifically, by referring to "the original German" of the policy, that the Germans historically invented the "original" way of thinking behind it, i.e. - so the insinuation goes - fascism.

Now historically this may still not be correct ("fascist" is from Italian), but its not unreasonable either. The rise of fascism is forever going to be associated - as opposed to equated - with Germany, and that's not in itself illogical. The most famous case of a certain phenomenon usually ends up being used as a pars pro toto for the phenomenon. Kinda like South Africa and Apartheid, even when Apartheid-like systems used to be implemented in many other countries as well. So its more like in, "read the Buchanan policy on affirmative action in the original Afrikaner" or "read the Gephardt manifesto on government-controlled health insurance in the original Russian", or something.

Phew! How deep can I get into a joke, huh? :-)

LW, Here's my thinking on the whole recall: It's a big mistake for this state. It's wasting precious money at a time when teachers are being cut. A recall now means future elections are at the mercy of whoever wants to initiate another recall, to elect some ego-brained nobody who really hasn't paid their dues of working themselves in the political system. No sir! It's a boondoggle of the worst kind for our state. I'm voting NO on the recall, and not voting for anybody listed. c.i.

I guess we all get different mental 'clicks' from what we hear.

I heard it on Maher, and I got the same bad feeling I get when I hear "Nigger", "Jap", holocaust jokes, too. Wish they didn't bother me as much as they do. It is possible that I'm too sensitive.

Oh well. Climbing off my soapbox now. Excuse the diversion.

"Why don't we stop now before we end up saying something we regret."

I don't think you know the difference. c.i.

Heh. I know, we must be annoying the hell outta the others with our obsession with detail, huh? (I even edited my post above, again).

Still, not to drive the point home, but isnt there a difference between being made fun of because of what you are (blacks, jews) or because of what you did (lax drug laws, hooliganism, apartheid), even if its as a country (or other collective)?

I mean, I take it differently when they make fun of the high school I was in as "that school of punks and hippies", even if we werent all punk or hippie, than if they make fun of "that school of niggers". The collective of my high school's student body voluntarily chose, in majority, to pick an out-of-the-ordinary fashion - we can only expect to be taken up on it. Whereas you cant do much about being black if you're black, and thus picking on that is a lot more pernicious. I.e., to get back near the original joke, making fun of the Dutch following bald fascists fags around in politics seems essentially different from making fun of "ugly Arabs" or something like that. Or am I just rambling now?

How are you, by the way, lately? I hope good!

c.i. said:

I guess I don't. I think the German slap is equally as regrettable as the others I mentioned.
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nimh-- Yes. I think I'm probably annoying the hell out of some folks. I have that lovely tendancy . I felt like passing it by without comment would be wrong on my part. (Must practice more at passing things by...)

I understand your point about what someone did vs what color/ethnicity they are--and that is my point, as well. I think we could probably find a lot of Germans who weren't guilty of what the joke implies.

Broad brush slurs--me hate.

I'm fine, my dear. Always happy to see you!

Nimh -- I agree with you about Letterman... and Leno too, for that matter. They're all about canned laughter. Maher is funny, really funny, and sometimes awful. But engaging. When I have to turn him off is when he gets (as he quite often does) ragingly self-conscious, egotistical.

Tartar, I took the family to see the very first show of David Letterman. As we walked out of the theater, I told my family he's not going to last one week. So much for my insights into night shows. c.i.

John Stewart...the last funny comedian?

Not at all - and others neither. (I don't know, if this really is that great interest here - people here are more shaking their head about who seems to qualify as governor. - Besides, Schwarzenegger was an Austrian, not a German :wink: )

Methinks one complains too much and is feigning a sensitivity for the German people rather than actually showing distain that it was a brilliant jab against the present administration and right on target. Ditto the Maher quote at the end of Walter's post which is not as much a joke as an arrow aimed right at the heart of the matter.

LW--
You are mistaken. I brought an article many months back about the problem German universities were having with anti-Semitism. It seemed to be multiplying exponentially. I headed the thread "German Universities, a breeding ground for anti-Semitism." Walter took offense, and I changed the title and did some introspective self-analysis to check myself regarding Germany.

I decided it was unfair to continue to use Germany's history as a measuring stick for everything that goes on there. I felt I had been wrong.

Maher's remark was in that vein, and wrong, in my estimation. I hear anti-Bush, anti-Arnold and anti-GOP jokes very frequently. Some are funny. The one that slapped Germany in the same gesture as it slapped Arnold was just plain wrong, in my estimation.

I resent your remark that I 'feigned' sensitivity for the German people. You are incorrect.