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New roll-out (propaganda campaign) for war with Iran?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:24 am
Blatham,

I believe you are in the grip of some preconceptions about "military" men.

I have had the experience of both the military and business corporations (in my case large engineering & construction firms). In terms of often prickly individualism and a willingness to openly challenge authority (at least while an issue is being studied) the Navy & Marine officers with whom I served were usually far more independent than their coporate counterparts (who often tend to voice their disagreements through circuitous and underground channels). This is an observation that I have also heard from many others who have followed similar career paths.

While you may have some knowledge of Petraeus and Powel through news reports, I submit that you really don't know much about the "others" whom you so willingly castigate.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:26 am
blatham wrote:
hi george

I miss you. I long for those rich private moments we've shared. I hope everyone is well over in georgeland.


And I, you. Everyone is fine here. How do you like Oregon after the concrete forests of Manhattan?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:28 am
ps

Lola and I just spent several days with dyslexia and dianne down in New Mexico (on our drive back up from texas).

It's likely that your two biggest fans over here on the left are dyslexia and myself. Do you realize what this says about you?
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:39 am
blatham wrote:
ps

Lola and I just spent several days with dyslexia and dianne down in New Mexico (on our drive back up from texas).

It's likely that your two biggest fans over here on the left are dyslexia and myself. Do you realize what this says about you?


That I appeal only to the prickliest and most cantankerous individuals over there???

Perhaps there is some symmetry in our mutual regard.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 10:53 am
georgeob1 wrote:
blatham wrote:
ps

Lola and I just spent several days with dyslexia and dianne down in New Mexico (on our drive back up from texas).

It's likely that your two biggest fans over here on the left are dyslexia and myself. Do you realize what this says about you?


That I appeal only to the prickliest and most cantankerous individuals over there???

Perhaps there is some symmetry in our mutual regard.


It may be that. I confess I am profoundly confused by the whole matter. However, I can picture all of us parading shoulder to shoulder down some typical American street. A flag, a Winchester and a hookah. Three amigos.

We're fine here. Portland is a lovely little city. But, and this is a big but for me, it is far too caucasian and protestant and granola. There's a serious need for an influx of jews, italians, blacks, slavs, latinos and irish. The cops here don't swear. It takes some getting used to.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 12:16 pm
blatham wrote:
Three amigos.

Yess indeed !

blatham wrote:
We're fine here. Portland is a lovely little city. But, and this is a big but for me, it is far too caucasian and protestant and granola. There's a serious need for an influx of jews, italians, blacks, slavs, latinos and irish. The cops here don't swear. It takes some getting used to.


I used to opine that we could significantly improve the world if we assembled all the Anglo Saxons, Germans, and perhaps Japanese in one place and divided them equally among all nations. They could be used to run essential services like water, sewage and power distribution - leaving the Italians, Irish, French, Jews, Slavs and others just to live. It would be a better world.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 12:40 pm
This Japanese loves leisure too! LOL
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 01:17 pm
george wrote:
Quote:
I used to opine that we could significantly improve the world if we assembled all the Anglo Saxons, Germans, and perhaps Japanese in one place and divided them equally among all nations. They could be used to run essential services like water, sewage and power distribution - leaving the Italians, Irish, French, Jews, Slavs and others just to live. It would be a better world.


That's very funny, george. At Coretta King's funeral, Bill Clinton used a term I'd never heard before which I gathered from his context arose in the black community as a description of white protestants' notions on worship and living..."the frozen chosen". Indeed.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 02:22 pm
This has all become rather droll.

An exercise in half-baked stewing of Dada, The Book of Etiquette, incipient fascism and greeting card culture at the stage when the ingredients have yet to be removed from the shops.

Let us all hope that it symbolises the desultory fading away, in a stream of mindless chatter, the prospect on which we are supposed to be engaging our brilliant minds.

Perhaps the thread should be transferred to Relationships.

Quote:
I believe you are in the grip of some preconceptions about "military" men.


And not just military men.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 04:20 pm
Does it harm you Spendi? Why should you care one way or the other?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 05:15 pm
Gee! I've tweaked George's reflexes.

That's quite a feat folks seeing as how cool he is.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 06:09 pm
No. I am just curious about what could possibly be your motivation.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 07:37 pm
test
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 07:15 am
from Juan Cole...much more than I've cut/pasted here. It seems pretty phucking foolish to consider US goals and operations in the middle east without seeing resource control as central
Quote:
The regime in Iran has not gone away despite decades of hostility toward it by Washington, and despite the latter's policy of "containment." As a result, US petroleum corporations are denied significant opportunities for investment in the Iranian petroleum sector. Worse, Iran has made a big energy deal with China and is negotiating with India. As those two countries emerge as the superpowers of the 21st century, they will attempt to lock up Gulf petroleum and gas in proprietary contracts.

(Since it is already coming up in the comments, I should note that the "fungibility" (easy exchange) of oil is less important in the new environment than it used to be. US petroleum companies would like to go back to actually owning fields in the Middle East, since there are big profits to be made if you get to decide when you take it out of the ground. As Chinese and Indian competition for the increasingly scarce resource heats up, exclusive contracts will be struck. When I floated the fungibility of petroleum as a reason for which the Iraq War could not be only about oil, at a talk at Columbia's Earth Institute last year, Jeffrey Sachs surprised me by disagreeing with me. In our new environment, oil is becoming a commodity over which it really does make sense to fight for control. See below.*)

In a worst case scenario, Washington would like to retain the option of military action against Iran, so as to gain access to its resources and deny them to rivals. If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, however, that option will be foreclosed. Iran may not be trying for a weapon, and if it is, it could not get one before about 2016. But if it had a nuclear weapon, it would be off limits to US attack, and its anti-American regime could not only lock up Iranian gas and oil for the rest of the century by making sweetheart deals with China. It also might begin to exercise a sway over the small energy-producing countries of the Middle East. (The oil interest would explain the mystery of why Washington just does not care that Pakistan has the Bomb; Pakistan has nothing Washington wants and so there was no need to preserve the military option in its regard.)
http://www.juancole.com/2006/08/one-ring-to-rule-them-wholesale.html
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 01:34 pm
George-

Exploration of ideas under mild stress. I'm now mulling over whether Pakistan is important or not for example. I have always thought so but I won't go around saying that Mr Cole is talking rubbish on the strength of what I thought.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 03:23 pm
What is the issue? Whether or not there really is an operating international market for oil? Whether China and India will "lock up" Middle Eastern oil in exclusive contracts?

I believe that just a little reflection on the international scene, including the newly emerging patterns of trade, the strategic self-interest of the powers involved, and concrete information on just what nations are most dependent on Persian Gulf oil, amply gives the lie to the proposition that 19th century exclusivity of access to resources will reemerge in a lasting way. Petroleum will continue to be available to whoever has the ability and willingness to pay for it.

The United States is not without options -- we are the Saudi Arabia of coal.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 06:20 pm
Oh- there's a lot of coal George.

It's just that if we burn it all we get a sort of slow motion giant sunspot involving us all going around looking like Mr Armstrong on the moon except he could see where he was going.

I suppose you could fix it so only the US was allowed to use it. Then it wouldn't be so bad.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 09:15 pm
Sounds like the Bushco regime is setting up the scene for war against Iran.



US accuses Iran over Iraq attacks


Ambassador Crocker and Gen Petraeus have testified to Congress
Senior US officials have singled out Iran for criticism, a day after giving a progress report on security in Iraq.
Gen David Petraeus, top US commander in Iraq, and US envoy to Baghdad Ryan Crocker both cited evidence of Iranian involvement in attacks on US troops.

Responding to their report, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said it made clear Iraq's security had improved, but Iran was a "troublesome neighbour".

US President George W Bush is due to address the nation on Thursday evening.
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 10:21 pm
Darth War_dodger killed off Saddam, who was the counterweight for Iran in the Middle East, in a roundabout way strengthened Iran's hand by practically giving Iraq to Iran.
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 10:54 pm
Golden Fleece Awards website: Golden Fleece Awards
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