Infidelity Makes Me ILL

CalamityJane wrote:

I have never cheated and I was never cheated on, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the circumstances why it could happen. None of us ever knows what's going on behind closed doors in a marriage, and what drives a person to cheat.

Regardless of the reason, what I object to is dishonesty. One should
respect one's spouse enough to discuss this issue with her/him, and take
all consequences in consideration. That's the least I would ask. Being
betrayed is one thing, but being betrayed and lied to is far worse in my
book.

I'm trying to understand your perspective better CJ - so please bear with me.

You infer above that there are certain circumstances whereas adultery is understandable, justified, etc. Please share the circumstances that would make the practice of infidelity acceptable.

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I'm not CJ, but I've stated before that there are certain circumstances where I would understand infidelity within a marriage -- even within a strong marriage. The example I gave previously is a couple I know where she has no interest whatsoever in sex. He has a mistress. They have three children and are otherwise a fully functional and happy family. Everyone is aware of what the others are doing but they don't need to discuss it, or dwell on it. Some men have poker night with the boys, this man has dinner and sex with his mistress.

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JPB wrote:

I'm not CJ, but I've stated before that there are certain circumstances where I would understand infidelity within a marriage -- even within a strong marriage. The example I gave previously is a couple I know where she has no interest whatsoever in sex. He has a mistress. They have three children and are otherwise a fully functional and happy family. Everyone is aware of what the others are doing but they don't need to discuss it, or dwell on it. Some men have poker night with the boys, this man has dinner and sex with his mistress.

Do you really believe that the Mrs. is all-supporting in this instance? No problems concerning the emotional bond that Mr. and mistress have and are forming? What happens on holidays? What if mistress becomes pregnant? What if mistress demands to be monetarily compensated (before or after death of Mr.?) In the case of Mr.'s death - surely mistress is entitled to compensation. Is she named in the family's will? Who will comfort Mr. if mistress decides to end relationship? Can Mr. have more than one mistress?

Also: If you believe that parents should be role-models for their children - what message do you feel their kids are getting from this arrangement? (Especially if they never discuss the arrangement?)

Sounds like an emotional land-mine to me! :wink:

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Hell, yes, she's all-supporting. What emotional bond? We're talking dinner and sex, not making love. Holidays are spent with the family. I'm sure mistress is and will be adequately compensated and whatever deeds are necessary will already be in her name. Mr isn't looking for comfort, baddog, he's looking for sex.

Message to the children? I have no idea what their children know or don't know. Mr is at every baseball and soccer game, as is Mrs. She's also on the PTO and volunteers here, there, and everywhere. Mistress can decide she no longer wants to be mistress at any time. Who's getting hurt?

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JPB wrote:

Everyone is aware of what the others are doing but they don't need to discuss it, or dwell on it.

I should clarify here that "everyone" refers to the three adults in this scenario. I don't know what the kids know about the situation, if anything.

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The other example I gave previously was Michael Schiavo (or anyone in a similar circumstance). I think his infidelity was understandable.

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Bookmark.

Emotional stuff aside, I, as a single, would be interested to know what circumstances most likely lead to adultery, and what are the "universal" characteristics of cheaters? Are genes involved? Parental influence?

I wonder how Steven Levitt, author of Freakonomics, would theorize about this trend.

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baddog1 wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
I have never cheated and I was never cheated on, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the circumstances why it could happen. None of us ever knows what's going on behind closed doors in a marriage, and what drives a person to cheat.

Regardless of the reason, what I object to is dishonesty. One should
respect one's spouse enough to discuss this issue with her/him, and take
all consequences in consideration. That's the least I would ask. Being
betrayed is one thing, but being betrayed and lied to is far worse in my
book.

I'm trying to understand your perspective better CJ - so please bear with me.

You infer above that there are certain circumstances whereas adultery is understandable, justified, etc. Please share the circumstances that would make the practice of infidelity acceptable.

Yes, there are circumstances, and as JPB pointed out, one factor would
be the absence of sex. There are some women/men out there who will not
uphold their bargain of marriage where sex and intimacy is part of.
Why should the suffering spouse be doomed to a marriage without sex
just because the partner decided it is not for them any longer.

More often these couples have an arrangement that suits them both.

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Chai wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
Chai wrote:
The word marriage, in any language means commitment, period. Not commitment when it's convenient, or when you aren't turned on by an attractive person or mentally stimulated by someone interesting. I mean, talk about entitlement.

You're saying this while admitting earlier that you cheated on your former spouse with your current husband? How convenient is that?

Yes CJ, I did say, and I did admit.....if you had bothered to read, (wait, what am I saying, you read, but didn't bother to include the rest of what I said....how "convenient") the rest of my former post...I said....

if someone had told me what I was doing was wrong, I would have had no problem with agreeing.

I certainly wouldn't have been angry at someone judging me for that.

It does happen for love at times, but I'm not going to make excuses for my self and go on about how that was the case with me. Who cares?

You make a commitment to someone, you take the results of breaking that commitment to the grave

I'm not angry at you for judging that what I did was wrong. I will live the rest of my life knowing what I did at that time was wrong. If I went on to explain the circumstances, it would sound like I was justifying and making excuses, so I'm not going to do that.....I was not entitled to do what I did, I was not patient and waited until the divorces were final first.

Retaining the knowledge one did wrong for the rest of their days does not equal beating yourself up over it every day of your life. That goes for everything you do, not just cheating. That doesn't make it "convenient"

Part of my commiting adultery in the past is a factor, albeit a small one today, in my emphasis on my marriage being faithful today.

We all judge other people, that's just natural, but besides the point
here. Since you have committed adultery, I would have hoped that you
are more sympathetic to the ones who do -- as you have experienced first hand under what circumstances one can commit adultery. You were
in an unhappy marriage and you found your soulmate. Nothing wrong
with that.

What I don't get is the utter lack of understanding for others who might
be in the same boat for similar reasons.

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Well, through reading these posts, I see I am of a different mindset once again Smile

... I think it's okay if people grow apart and don't want to continue the partnership. Other partnerships can end without all this hoopla, why not a marriage? Sometimes you just grow in different directions, or your partner is no longer meeting your needs, or people change in a big way, or you grow up, or you just fall out of love... what you need and want at 25 is not necessarily what you need and want at 50.

But per the topic, infidelity, that is not the way to do it, imo. No, no, no. I think that's an easy way out, a cop out, if you will.

I agree with CJ and JPB that there are some situations with extenuating circumstances... certainly the case of the Schiavos. Good heavens, the woman was in a coma for years. Life does go on.

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Mame wrote:

I agree with CJ and JPB that there are some situations with extenuating circumstances...

I do, too.

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JPB wrote:

Hell, yes, she's all-supporting. What emotional bond? We're talking dinner and sex, not making love. Holidays are spent with the family. I'm sure mistress is and will be adequately compensated and whatever deeds are necessary will already be in her name. Mr isn't looking for comfort, baddog, he's looking for sex.

Message to the children? I have no idea what their children know or don't know. Mr is at every baseball and soccer game, as is Mrs. She's also on the PTO and volunteers here, there, and everywhere. Mistress can decide she no longer wants to be mistress at any time. Who's getting hurt?

So you're talking about the needs of an individual?

I'm a little surprised that some of the ladies haven't jumped in here concerning the sexual activity being separate from emotions!

What if my wife only wants to have sex once a month - but my needs require sex 3-times @ week?

Are prostitutes OK?

If the children are older than 7 - you can bet a dime to a dollar that they know something is - uh - different. Yet you claim that they would not be affected by this activity?

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baddog1 wrote:

What if my wife only wants to have sex once a month - but my needs require sex 3-times @ week?

Marriage should be an equal give and take union, and if your wife is
not wanting to have relations with you on a more agreeable level, then
you should ask yourself, why is she not interested in an intimate relationship with you. I consider sex once a month not as the norm. You would have
to find out - together - what the problem is. She might have hormonal
imbalances, in need of more stimulation, and so on. If all avenues are
explored and your wife still won't have sexual relations with you other than
once a month, than she should understand, that you opt for consequences.

What about the children? If the parents are happy, the children are happy
and vice versa.

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CalamityJane wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
What if my wife only wants to have sex once a month - but my needs require sex 3-times @ week?

Marriage should be an equal give and take union, and if your wife is
not wanting to have relations with you on a more agreeable level, then
you should ask yourself, why is she not interested in an intimate relationship with you. I consider sex once a month not as the norm. You would have
to find out - together - what the problem is. She might have hormonal
imbalances, in need of more stimulation, and so on. If all avenues are
explored and your wife still won't have sexual relations with you other than
once a month, than she should understand, that you opt for consequences.

What about the children? If the parents are happy, the children are happy
and vice versa.

What are your thoughts then on JPB's position?:

"I'm not CJ, but I've stated before that there are certain circumstances where I would understand infidelity within a marriage -- even within a strong marriage. The example I gave previously is a couple I know where she has no interest whatsoever in sex. He has a mistress. They have three children and are otherwise a fully functional and happy family. Everyone is aware of what the others are doing but they don't need to discuss it, or dwell on it. Some men have poker night with the boys, this man has dinner and sex with his mistress."

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If it works for them, what's the problem? baddog, it seems you're trying
very hard to press the world into your beliefs and your stance on
marriage. Not everything is black or white, whatever makes people happy -
it is fine with me. I am not here to tell them otherwise, just because my
way of thinking is different.

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baddog1 wrote:

So you're talking about the needs of an individual?

I'm a little surprised that some of the ladies haven't jumped in here concerning the sexual activity being separate from emotions!

What if my wife only wants to have sex once a month - but my needs require sex 3-times @ week?

Are prostitutes OK?

If the children are older than 7 - you can bet a dime to a dollar that they know something is - uh - different. Yet you claim that they would not be affected by this activity?

If your wife agrees to your activities beyond what she is willing to accommodate and she is okay having occasional sex with someone who is having regular sex with other(s) then who are we to judge?

As to the affect on the kids... they seem to be well-adjusted, normal kids. If the worst thing in their lives is that dad has a late 'business' dinner once a week then I think they will be fine.

I'm not sure why you think it's unimaginable for a man to have sex without an emotional attachment beyond a physical attraction. If that was the case then there would be no prostitutes. Actually, I can imagine a man having sex without a physical attraction.

Back to Heatwave's original point on infidelity.... I hate the skulking, sneaking, lying aspects of affairs as much as the next person and consistently advise against them. My point is only that there are times when it can be the right answer.

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I agree, well, I would, wouldn't I, with JPB and CJ and Mame in their variations; I really agree with Soz too. Oh, and Swimpy. Probably forgetting... I'm supporting Francis as well, whatever I think he thinks.

I get the idea baddog is always trying to sell us one book or another, which is ok, those are his views.

What is the title of this thread anyway, I'm getting them mixed up. On vows, surely marriage had various exchanged words over millennia, including before the christian era, lots of those words having to do with property, not romantic love.

AHA, it's heatwave's thread. Nods.

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Broccoli makes me ill. Even smothered with Velveeta.

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baddog1 wrote:

1. I'm a little surprised that some of the ladies haven't jumped in here concerning the sexual activity being separate from emotions!

2. What if my wife only wants to have sex once a month - but my needs require sex 3-times @ week?

3. Are prostitutes OK?

1. I can certainly say that I've found it possible to have sex with someone I had no interest in other than sexual - and found it quite a good thing.

2. and 3. that's entirely up to you and your wife.

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I meant to add the obvious, that zillions don't subscribe to christian marriage thought.... and neither do many of them in practice.

Broccoli is excellent when roasted with a bit of olive oil.

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Infidelity Makes Me ILL

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