41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 10:17 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Because Israel is far worse than the US. E.g. the US could have colonized Japan, or Germany, or France after WW2. They didn't.


As bad as Israel is, and I'll readily admit, it is bad, it doesn't come close to the USA. No, the USA could not have colonized those countries. It got all it needed without doing that. Those countries would not have tolerated being colonized.

But speaking of bad, between 1945 and today, read on for what bad means.

Quote:
A Brief History of U.S. Interventions:
1945 to the Present

by William Blum

Z magazine , June 1999





The engine of American foreign policy has been fueled not by a devotion to any kind of morality, but rather by the necessity to serve other imperatives, which can be summarized as follows:

* making the world safe for American corporations;

* enhancing the financial statements of defense contractors at home who have contributed generously to members of congress;

* preventing the rise of any society that might serve as a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model;

* extending political and economic hegemony over as wide an area as possible, as befits a "great power."

This in the name of fighting a supposed moral crusade against what cold warriors convinced themselves, and the American people, was the existence of an evil International Communist Conspiracy, which in fact never existed, evil or not.

The United States carried out extremely serious interventions into more than 70 nations in this period.

China, 1945-49:

Intervened in a civil war, taking the side of Chiang Kai-shek against the Communists, even though the latter had been a much closer ally of the United States in the world war. The U.S. used defeated Japanese soldiers to fight for its side. The Communists forced Chiang to flee to Taiwan in 1949.

Italy, 1947-48:

Using every trick in the book, the U.S. interfered in the elections to prevent the Communist Party from coming to power legally and fairly. This perversion of democracy was done in the name of "saving democracy" in Italy. The Communists lost. For the next few decades, the CIA, along with American corporations, continued to intervene in Italian elections, pouring in hundreds of millions of dollars and much psychological warfare to block the specter that was haunting Europe.

Greece, 1947-49:

Intervened in a civil war, taking the side of the neo-fascists against the Greek left which had fought the Nazis courageously. The neo-fascists won and instituted a highly brutal regime, for which the CIA created a new internal security agency, KYP. Before long, KYP was carrying out all the endearing practices of secret police everywhere, including systematic torture.

Philippines, 1945-53:

U.S. military fought against leftist forces (Huks) even while the Huks were still fighting against the Japanese invaders. After the war, the U. S. continued its fight against the Huks, defeating them, and then installing a series of puppets as president, culminating in the dictatorship of Ferdinand Marcos.

South Korea, 1945-53:

After World War II, the United States suppressed the popular progressive forces in favor of the conservatives who had collaborated with the Japanese. This led to a long era of corrupt, reactionary, and brutal governments.

Albania, 1949-53:

The U.S. and Britain tried unsuccessfully to overthrow the communist government and install a new one that would have been pro-Western and composed largely of monarchists and collaborators with Italian fascists and Nazis.

Germany, 1950s:

The CIA orchestrated a wide-ranging campaign of sabotage, terrorism, dirty tricks, and psychological warfare against East Germany. This was one of the factors which led to the building of the Berlin Wall in 1961.

Iran, 1953:

Prime Minister Mossadegh was overthrown in a joint U.S./British operation. Mossadegh had been elected to his position by a large majority of parliament, but he had made the fateful mistake of spearheading the movement to nationalize a British-owned oil company, the sole oil company operating in Iran. The coup restored the Shah to absolute power and began a period of 25 years of repression and torture, with the oil industry being restored to foreign ownership, as follows: Britain and the U.S., each 40 percent, other nations 20 percent.

Guatemala, 1953-1990s:

A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically-elected and progressive government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of death-squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions, and unimaginable cruelty, totaling well over 100,000 victims -indisputably one of the most inhuman chapters of the 20th century. Arbenz had nationalized the U.S. firm, United Fruit Company, which had extremely close ties to the American power elite. As justification for the coup, Washington declared that Guatemala had been on the verge of a Soviet takeover, when in fact the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn't even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem in the eyes of Washington, in addition to United Fruit, was the danger of Guatemala's social democracy spreading to other countries in Latin America.

Middle East, 1956-58:

The Eisenhower Doctrine stated that the United States "is prepared to use armed forces to assist" any Middle East country "requesting assistance against armed aggression from any country controlled by international communism." The English translation of this was that no one would be allowed to dominate, or have excessive influence over, the middle east and its oil fields except the United States, and that anyone who tried would be, by definition, "Communist." In keeping with this policy, the United States twice attempted to overthrow the Syrian government, staged several shows-of-force in the Mediterranean to intimidate movements opposed to U.S.-supported governments in Jordan and Lebanon, landed 14,000 troops in Lebanon, and conspired to overthrow or assassinate Nasser of Egypt and his troublesome middle-east nationalism.

Indonesia, 1957-58:

Sukarno, like Nasser, was the kind of Third World leader the United States could not abide. He took neutralism in the cold war seriously, making trips to the Soviet Union and China (though to the White House as well). He nationalized many private holdings of the Dutch, the former colonial power. He refused to crack down on the Indonesian Communist Party, which was walking the legal, peaceful road and making impressive gains electorally. Such policies could easily give other Third World leaders "wrong ideas." The CIA began throwing money into the elections, plotted Sukarno's assassination, tried to blackmail him with a phony sex film, and joined forces with dissident military officers to wage a full-scale war against the government. Sukarno survived it all.

British Guiana/Guyana, 1953-64:

For 11 years, two of the oldest democracies in the world, Great Britain and the United States, went to great lengths to prevent a democratically elected leader from occupying his office. Cheddi Jagan was another Third World leader who tried to remain neutral and independent. He was elected three times. Although a leftist-more so than Sukarno or Arbenz-his policies in office were not revolutionary. But he was still a marked man, for he represented Washington's greatest fear: building a society that might be a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model. Using a wide variety of tactics-from general strikes and disinformation to terrorism and British legalisms, the U. S. and Britain finally forced Jagan out in 1964. John F. Kennedy had given a direct order for his ouster, as, presumably, had Eisenhower.

One of the better-off countries in the region under Jagan, Guyana, by the 1980s, was one of the poorest. Its principal export became people.

Vietnam, 1950-73:

The slippery slope began with siding with ~ French, the former colonizers and collaborators with the Japanese, against Ho Chi Minh and his followers who had worked closely with the Allied war effort and admired all things American. Ho Chi Minh was, after all, some kind of Communist. He had written numerous letters to President Truman and the State Department asking for America's help in winning Vietnamese independence from the French and finding a peaceful solution for his country. All his entreaties were ignored. Ho Chi Minh modeled the new Vietnamese declaration of independence on the American, beginning it with "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with ..." But this would count for nothing in Washington. Ho Chi Minh was some kind of Communist.

READ ON AT,

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html




0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 10:28 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
not really ignoring it, it just that most of that is now water under the bridge.


War crimes are never water under the bridge, Rev. War crimes are punishable until your war criminal presidents die. It's criminal that they aren't. You, and your fellow war crimes apologists, help in this criminality.

Have you not noticed how the USA regularly sends back petty war criminals that are discovered in the USA, trumpeting how noble they are, all the while committing the most vicious of war crimes themselves?


Quote:
I am frankly tired of talking about this.


No doubt. You're in, if not good company, at least numerous company. It's not fun to have to face the fact that the history of the USA has all
been a gigantic lie.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 10:56 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Because Israel is far worse than the US. E.g. the US could have colonized Japan, or Germany, or France after WW2. They didn't. The day Israel not only gives back to west bank to a Palestinian government, but also lends funds for the reconstruction and development of the West Bank, like the US did for West Germany, you will have a point.

Israel has offered to let the Palestinians have an independent state based on 1967 borders, and they've offered it over and over and over and over.

The only reason it has never happened is because the Palestinians always refuse, preferring to instead continue trying to murder children.

The offers included massive aid packages for the Palestinians too.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 11:04 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
... over and over ...


--------------


According to a landmark, comprehensive study of all of Israel’s wars, by Zeev Maoz, Professor of Political Science at the University of California, Davis, former head of the Graduate School of Government and Policy and of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University, and former academic director of the M.A. Program at the Israeli Defense Forces’ National Defense College:
“. most of the wars in which Israel was involved were the result of deliberate Israeli aggressive design . None of these wars – with the possible exception of the 1948 War of independence – was what Israel refers to as Milhemet Ein Berah (war of necessity). They were all wars of choice . ” – Defending the Holy Land, pg. 35, (bold added)
“I review a number of peace-related opportunities ranging from the Zionist-Hashemite collusion in 1947 through the collapse of the Oslo Process in 2000. In all those cases I find that Israeli decision makers – who had been willing to embark upon bold and daring military adventures – were extremely reluctant to make even the smallest concessions for peace . I also find in many cases Israel was engaged in systematic violations of agreements and tacit understandings between itself and its neighbors.” – Defending the Holy Land, pg. 40

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/facts-us-citizens-need-know-israel-palestine.html
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 11:12 am
A Swiss lawyer is exploring on Snowden's behalf the possibility of the United States fugitive coming to Switzerland.

And a global network of lawyers is currently searching for another country that will take him in without extraditing him to the US, according to Swiss media.

One of those legal experts, Marcel Bosonnet, told Le Temps that he was exploring the options of political asylum and humanitarian grounds for allowing Snowden safe passage into Switzerland.
“It is up to the Swiss authorities to say how they could ensure the presence of Edward Snowden without him being arrested and handed over to the US authorities,” the Zurich-based lawyer said in the interview. “It is obvious that Switzerland should provide prior guarantees.”
Bosonnet added that it could be in Switzerland’s interest to have Snowden on Swiss soil considering that the government has endorsed an inquiry into alleged criminal NSA surveillance methods.
“It would therefore be logical to hear from the author of the [NSA espionage] revelations that have been aired,” he said.
Source: Le Temps: «Il serait logique d’entendre Edward Snowden»
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 11:16 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
According to a landmark, comprehensive study of all of Israel’s wars, by Zeev Maoz, Professor of Political Science at the University of California, Davis, former head of the Graduate School of Government and Policy and of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University, and former academic director of the M.A. Program at the Israeli Defense Forces’ National Defense College:
“. most of the wars in which Israel was involved were the result of deliberate Israeli aggressive design.

According to reality, however, Israel's wars have all been self defense.

The one possible exception might be the time that Israel helped the UK defend against Egyptian aggression. 1956 I think.

Are you going to keep cut-n-pasting the same articles that I've already responded to?
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 11:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Doesn't it warm your heart no end, Walter, that there are fair and honest people in the world?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 02:37 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Good for the Swiss! Bravo; at least some people are looking into another safe asylum for Snowden. People who understand the criminal activity of the NSA's government can't be trusted is probably pretty uninversal. I wonder why Germany isn't making that offer.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 03:47 pm
@oralloy,
You should know better than to try and sell me your lies, usato.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 07:02 pm
LOL NSA is targeting anyone who even research internet security let along dare to download such programs as TOR, Truecrypt or Trails it would seems.

Land of the free....BULLSHIT

Should be one hell of a large database in any case with millions if not tens of millions on it, one that I would surely be on for having all three programs that is if I had not taken other precautions at least.

Shaking my head over the idea that having such a list would at all be useful in fighting terrorism.

What a waste of resources..........


Quote:


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/03/nsa_xkeyscore_stasi_scandal/

Use Tor or 'extremist' Tails Linux? Congrats, you're on an NSA list
Penguinista mag readers, privacy-conscious netizens and more targeted, claims report
By Iain Thomson, 3 Jul 2014

Alleged leaked documents about the NSA's XKeyscore snooping software appear to show the paranoid agency is targeting Tor and Tails users, Linux Journal readers – and anyone else interested in online privacy.

At the heart of the claims is this sample configuration file for the XKeyscore system.

The top-secret documents were apparently obtained and studied by members of the Tor project and security specialists for German broadcasters NDR and WDR. In their analysis of the divulged data, the team accuses the NSA of, among other things:

Specifically targeting Tor directory servers
Reading email contents for mentions of Tor bridges
Logging IP addresses of people who search for privacy-focused websites and software
And possibly breaking international law in doing so.
We already know from leaked Snowden documents that Western intelligence agents hate Tor for its anonymizing abilities. But what the aforementioned leaked source code, written in a rather strange custom language, shows is that not only is the NSA targeting the anonymizing network Tor specifically, it is also taking digital fingerprints of any netizens who are remotely interested in privacy.

These include readers of the Linux Journal site, anyone visiting the website for the Tor-powered Linux operating system Tails – described by the NSA as "a comsec mechanism advocated by extremists on extremist forums" – and anyone looking into combining Tails with the encryption tool Truecrypt.

If something as innocuous as Linux Journal is on the NSA's hit list, it's a distinct possibility that El Reg is too, particularly in light of our recent exclusive report on GCHQ – which led to a Ministry of Defence advisor coming round our London office for a chat.

If you take even the slightest interest in online privacy or have Googled a Linux Journal article about a broken package, you are earmarked in an NSA database for further surveillance, according to these latest leaks.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 07:21 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
You should know better than to try and sell me your lies,

You anti-Semites shouldn't run around falsely accusing people of your own dishonesty.


Olivier5 wrote:
usato.

How many times does a can of Italians bounce when you throw it off the side of a mountain?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 07:25 pm
@oralloy,
How about that! We're all antisemites and Jew-haters, because we're against one group of ass holes stealing other people's property, killing them in ever increasing numbers, took away their freedoms, their water, their dignity, and they wonder why most people with some humanity and ethics want their crimes exposed to the world for who they are! "....falsely accusing....." What a ******* dork! He wouldn't know murder if his own family member got killed by one of his own.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2014 11:33 pm
US and Germany hold restorative talks after series of spy scandals
Quote:
The White House has moved closer to a rapprochement with Germany after a series of spy scandals prompted Barack Obama to dispatch some of his most senior officials to Berlin.

In an unusual step, the US president sent his chief of staff, Denis McDonough, and a senior counter-terrorism advisor to Germany to lay the foundations of a new, intelligence-sharing understanding between the two countries.

Following the meeting on Tuesday, both sides confirmed they had agreed to a formal dialogue which would lead, eventually, to a set of “guiding principles” over the relationship between its respective spy agencies. It is expected to be completed after the summer.

Germany has come to accept that it will not achieve the “no-spy agreement” it had sought, after the whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed the National Security Agency had monitored chancellor Angela Merkel’s cellphone.

However, Berlin wanted a major political gesture from Washington in recognition of the intense public anger over Snowden’s revelations, which were inflamed over the last month after it emerged there were two suspected US spies in the German government.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 01:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
An, IMHO, interesting opinion by Claude Moraes (MEP, Chair of the Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs Committee and Deputy Leader of the Labour Party in the European Parliament): Mass surveillance post-Snowden: an unbalanced debate
Quote:
People are entitled to privacy on the Internet just as they have a right to privacy in all other areas of their lives. Why has there been no debate about this?
[...]
The debate on privacy and security needs to focus on the purpose and scale of surveillance and its place in a democratic society. What are the acceptable measures to fight crime and terrorism? Where does a line need to be drawn to protect the right to private life and protection of personal data in a digitalised world? This is not to say that all spying and surveillance operations are unacceptable - we understand the importance of these tools in the fight against terrorism. But we need to decide if this type of indiscriminate, untargeted mass surveillance, which includes every shape or form of data from people's day to day lives, is acceptable, and we need to allow people to have that discussion and make the decision for themselves. People are entitled to privacy on the Internet just as they have a right to privacy in all other areas of their lives.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 02:28 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
We're all antisemites and Jew-haters


A Jew hater you are as your statement that we need to rethink whether the holocaust was a bad idea or not is indeed an out of the closet anti-semite of the worst kind.

To say nothing of complaining about Israel taking whatever steps are needed to end a rain of now thousands of rocket bombs aim at their population centers.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 05:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
JTT loves to pound one message on a2k; a ******* bore. He's a sicko; a mental condition that doesn't allow him more normal outlook on life.


Happy Wednesday morning, July 23, CI.

I've posted on a2k for a year and four months and during that entire period with one exception (when JTT disappeared from the board for a brief phase), the poster in question has been relentlessly posting the same theme ad infinitum. All of us realize by now JTT suffers from what any normal thinking individual would consider a brain irregularity....either that, or we, a2k posters, are the ones with the behavioral aberration.

JTT is harmless enough with his tediously boring repetitiveness, and as long as one may escape via the ignore feature, it's not too bad. Most people are aware their governments are not perfect and its alright to criticize them, even harshly, especially in specific circumstances, like the US double standard in the Middle East, but let's face it the same ole same ole day in and day, out 24/7, 365 days, would eventually cause the Biblical Job to scream enough is enough!

Have a good day, friend.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 08:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I think if people in UK really wanted to have the debate, they would have it and it would force their leaders to make the changes they want.

If there are alternatives to mass surveillance which would not hinder potential information gathering, then of course, I think it would be acceptable to most everyone. So perhaps more resources should be put into finding those alternatives rather than just tying the hands of those who are trying to track terrorist.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 08:30 am
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
I've posted on a2k for a year and four months and during that entire period with one exception (when JTT disappeared from the board for a brief phase),


This from a person who has me on ignore.

Quote:
the poster in question has been relentlessly posting the same theme ad infinitum.


That's not surprising, MiT. The USA has been doing the same criminal things for well over two centuries; raping, pillaging, murdering, stealing. There are only so many words to describe this evil behavior.

But what of you? You do the same thing as regards Israel. And yet you have never explained your hypocrisy. Nor has CI. You two war crimes apologists just snipe in your pretense that you are using ignore. You two flaunt your dishonesty as regularly as you flaunt your hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 08:52 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
rather than just tying the hands of those who are trying to track terrorist.


Maintaining large databases of everyone who did a google search on a security subject or downloaded tor or truecrpyt and such is throwing resources away.

They and we would be far better off and safer if they did have their damn hands tied as far as doing massive data mining of the whole internet and force to focus on likely threats.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2014 08:57 am
Yeah...the intelligence agencies should only spy on people they know intend us harm!

Christ...where does such bizarre thinking originate?
 

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