0
   

Hillery, Obama, Edwards and the Democrates

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 24 Nov, 2007 03:49 pm
survey of matchups in Kentucky....
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=8d04025f-3b99-41fd-b488-a470924222b1

Clinton (D) 48%, Giuliani (R) 44%
Clinton (D) 54%, Romney (R) 39%
Clinton (D) 55%, Huckabee (R) 36%
Clinton (D) 48%, McCain (R) 47%
Giuliani (R) 52%, Obama (D) 38%
Romney (R) 44%, Obama (D) 43%
Obama (D) 44%, Huckabee (R) 42%
McCain (R) 56%, Obama (D) 34%
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 25 Nov, 2007 07:52 pm
Here's a lot more state polls - all the ones from Survey USA, Rasmussen and Quinnipiac (and the odd additional one) I could find, in fact.

Hillary against Giuliani; Hillary against Thompson; Hillary against Romney. If elections had been held between early October and early November, this is what the result would have looked like from state to state, according to those pollsters. Shades of blue mean shades of a Hillary victory; shades of red mean the Republican would take the state. (Note that Survey USA is distinctly more bullish about Hillary's chances than Rasmussen is).

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5877/hillarystatematchupsoctrs5.th.png
(Click to enlarge, and you may then have to click the picture again in the window that opens to get the right size.)

Those were all polls conducted between 9 October and 8 November. There have been some new ones since: Quinnipiac covered some states it did in mid-October again in the first days of this month, and Survey USA and Rasmussen have done polls in the middle of this month, including the Kentucky one Blatham just listed.

So here's an update for those few states, and this time covering Hillary match-ups against McCain and Huckabee as well. Note that McCain weighs up very well, and in the polls looks like the most "electable" Republican of the lot. Huckabee, meanwhile, at the moment would be the least electable.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6039/hillarystatematchupsnoven0.th.png
(Click to enlarge, and you may then have to click the picture again in the window that opens to get the right size.)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Mon 26 Nov, 2007 09:46 pm
Bad news for Hillary lovers that think the election fat lady has already sung.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071126191523.oorozvs5&show_article=1
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Mon 26 Nov, 2007 10:04 pm
<once again I dream of a media forum>

I'm going to plop this interesting article here, and in the equivalent McCain etc thread.

The Wishy-Washy, Squishy-Squashy Pseudoscience of Electability

from the bottom of page 1 of 6

Quote:


from the middle of page 4

Quote:



lots of interesting stuff on electability - fact/fiction/function
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 27 Nov, 2007 05:45 am
okie wrote:
Bad news for Hillary lovers that think the election fat lady has already sung.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071126191523.oorozvs5&show_article=1

I'd happily grant you the comfort, but this is pretty much the polling equivalent of a hoax.

This Zogby poll, as pollster.com warns, "used a non-probability sample. Respondants had previously volunteered to be interviewed online."

Yes - Zogby polled a group of people who voluntarily applied to be polled, rather than a random sample of respondents. A group, in short, that is not necessarily representative of anything except for those who are most willing to take part in polls...

A cursory comparison with the results of other, recent match-up polls show that the results of this poll are out of whack.

Examples?

  • A newly released Gallup poll that shows Hillary leading McCain by 6, Giuliani by 5, Romney by 16 and Thompson by 13

  • A Fox News poll earlier this month that showed Hillary leading McCain by 1, Giuliani by 4, Romney by 9 and Thompson by 13

  • A Cook Report poll earlier this month that showed Hillary leading Giuliani by 3

  • An NBC/WSJ poll from early this month that showed Hillary leading McCain by 4, Giuliani by 1, Romney by 11 and Thompson by 14

  • USA Today and CNN polls from early this month that both showed Hillary leading Giuliani by 6
The one only other pollster this month that had Hillary trailing any of the Republicans was Rasmussen, which had her trailing Giuliani by 4, and leading Thompson only by 2.

But consider the state-level polls I just posted in those pretty graphs as well:

  • Survey USA has released state-level polling from this month on these hypothetical match-ups for 10 states now. They show Hillary leading Giuliani by 4-5 points in Iowa, New Mexico, Ohio and Kentucky, running even in Virginia, trailing him by just 1 point in Missouri, and by 6 points in Kansas (which Kerry lost to Bush by 25).

    They also have her defeating both Romney and Huckabee in ALL those states - including Kansas.

    Notable, also, is that the Survey USA polls often show that Obama actually does *worse* than Hillary in these match-ups.

  • Quinnipiac? Two weeks ago, it had Hillary losing Ohio to McCain, and Connecticut to Giuliani - but it also has her winning Ohio against Giuliani (by 1 point), Romney (by 9 points) and Thompson (by 10), and thumping Romney and Thompson in CT by 17 and 22 points.

  • Rasmussen? Only two state polls out so far in the past two-three weeks, and the one for Florida doesnt look good, but the one for Alabama shows Hillary trailing both Giuliani and Thompson by only 6%, and running equal with Romney - and this is a state that Bush won by 26 points.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 28 Nov, 2007 02:55 pm
Here's a damned good Mike Gravel video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S2zkh6ZOGE

The creative chap behind this is someone named rx.
Quote:
"He was totally into it," rx tells us. "Not sure if he completely understood what I was up to, but neither did I. God love him for spending the time. Every politician should be this cool."
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Wed 28 Nov, 2007 05:50 pm
Noted on Tapped on Nov 26:

Quote:
John Edwards released his plan to help Americans with the rising cost of heating their homes this winter.

His proposal calls for the government to release the 700 million barrels of crude oil and 2 million barrels of home heating oil that we keep in reserve to protect consumers, increase funding for the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, create federal programs that work with non-profits and states to administer low- or no-interest emergency loans to families, and double the budget of the federal home weatherization program to $500 million a year.

On the regulatory side, it calls for strengthening anti-trust laws, reversing the deregulation trends of the past seven years, repealing subsidies and tax breaks that benefit oil companies, and greater enforcement of the environmental standards already in place on carbon-intensive industries. It also calls for investment in clean, cheap renewable energy, as well as improved CAFE standards, increased appliance and building efficiency, and wider use of biofuels.

The plan:

Edwards Announces Plan To Take On Big Oil Companies To Fight Rising Home Heating Costs

I dont like the title; do like the plan.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Wed 28 Nov, 2007 06:07 pm
nimh wrote:
okie wrote:
Bad news for Hillary lovers that think the election fat lady has already sung.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071126191523.oorozvs5&show_article=1

I'd happily grant you the comfort, but this is pretty much the polling equivalent of a hoax.

This Zogby poll, as pollster.com warns, "used a non-probability sample. Respondants had previously volunteered to be interviewed online."

Yes - Zogby polled a group of people who voluntarily applied to be polled, rather than a random sample of respondents. A group, in short, that is not necessarily representative of anything except for those who are most willing to take part in polls...

A cursory comparison with the results of other, recent match-up polls show that the results of this poll are out of whack.

Much more information about that poll at pollster.com:

Zogby Internet Poll Trial Heats are Odd

Pretty graphs, too.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 28 Nov, 2007 11:34 pm
I promised to post Alterman's piece on the last dem debate when it became available.
Quote:
Debating for Dummies
Eric Alterman

I've seen debates on TV before, of course, and attended them from journalists' pens and spin rooms. But sitting in the audience of CNN's November 15 Democratic presidential debate at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, focused my mind on the egregious manner in which our media dumb down the process by which we pick our Presidents.

It was less a debate than a two-hour advertisement; not only did viewers see CNN = Politics graphics everywhere but unbeknownst to the television audience a network producer ran around the stage, ginning up the crowd like a high school cheerleader. (This backfired when a group of rowdies--angered by the inanity of the questions--shouted down Wolf Blitzer and had to be removed from the auditorium.)

From the start it was obvious that Blitzer & Co. had little interest in illuminating the candidates' positions on actual issues; they sought merely to create controversy. The first part of the debate was given over to attacks on, and counterattacks from, Hillary Clinton--a surefire newsmaker that left the other candidates twiddling their thumbs. Next Blitzer went down the line, demanding to know whether the candidates supported driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants, apparently unaware that licenses are the province of governors and state legislators, not Presidents. When Barack Obama tried to outline his overall approach to immigration in response, Blitzer repeatedly cut him off. ("Is that a yes or a no?" was a typical Blitzer interruption.)

Blitzer also demanded an up-or-down answer from members of the panel on the question of merit pay for teachers, another issue for which the Constitution gives the President no role whatsoever. What's more, Blitzer's reductive formulation--"What if there's an excellent teacher in that team and a crummy teacher?"--failed to define who would make the decision, what criteria would be used and how they might be implemented. This turned out to be the moderator's modus operandi. Discussing the future of Pakistan, for instance, Blitzer reduced the question to the purely theoretical and profoundly misleading "Is human rights more important than American national security?"--as if the two were somehow contradictory by definition and either answer might plot out a plan in Pakistan.

As is so often the case in MSM election coverage, CNN's hectoring of the Democratic candidates reflected an unconscious internalization of Republican Party talking points. As Michael Kinsley pointed out during the 2004 Democratic convention, "It's true enough that this is a moment when the Democrats are called upon to reject extreme liberalism (whatever that might be) and to embrace moderation. But that is only because every moment is such a moment." He termed this meme "one of the very safest in all of punditry," which, as the old song goes, is really saying something. So we heard Blitzer robotically repeating, "The teachers' union, very powerful--teachers' unions, very powerful" before inquiring of Dennis Kucinich, "Are there any issues with unions--teachers' unions, or other unions for that matter--with which you disagree?" (Leave aside the fact that Blitzer apparently believes that all unions agree with one another on everything; are Republican candidates routinely asked to disassociate themselves from conservative Christians or the Fortune 500?)

The same syndrome was evident when, after a woman in the audience posed a question about what qualities the candidates would seek in a Supreme Court Justice, Blitzer and Suzanne Malveaux reinterpreted her question to restrict its scope to whether each would "require" judges "to support abortion rights." Of course, the questioner might have been interested in FISA, rendition, torture or the Bush Administration's multipronged assault on our constitutional rights, but where's the buzz factor there? Not only did CNN's anchors deliberately distort the woman's question; they replaced it with one posed within a hostile linguistic framework. Democrats, as we are all aware, speak of the issue as one of "reproductive freedom," "choice" or, as it is defined in Roe v. Wade, Americans' "right to privacy." The way Blitzer rephrased Malveaux's original distortion--demanding to know whether the Democrats would "insist" that judicial nominees "support abortion"--he might as well have been addressing a right-to-life rally.

We saw a similar dynamic every time voters were invited to ask a question: their concerns were ignored as Blitzer and Malveaux twisted their inquiries into "gotcha" traps. When an Arab-American asked an impassioned question about airport racial profiling, Malveaux used his story to try to trip up John Edwards. "You obviously voted for the Patriot Act, which gives the government extended powers of surveillance," she explained. "What do you say to people like Mr. Khan, who says he's been abused by that power?" Yet Mr. Khan never mentioned the Patriot Act, which, as Joe Biden finally noted, has nothing to do with racial profiling.

The night's final absurdity came at the evening's close, when a UNLV student was given the microphone and asked Hillary Clinton whether she preferred diamonds or pearls. Sitting in the audience, I was among those who thought her idiotic inquiry shamed both herself and her university. Yet it turns out I was being unfair. As she later explained on her MySpace page, she had been planning to ask a question about nuclear waste storage at Yucca Mountain, but at the last minute she was instructed by a CNN producer to switch her question to diamonds and pearls, which she had submitted in advance when asked by the network to provide questions of a "lighthearted/fun" nature. The folks at CNN apparently considered this inquiry to be such a stroke of genius they chose it as their lead story for the website the following day, under the headline Diamonds or pearls: Clinton wants both.

Really, Democrats, there's gotta be a better way.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 29 Nov, 2007 04:37 am
Great analysis. And should, but wont, put an end to the "liberal media" meme.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:11 am
Quote:
December 1, 2007, 8:02 am
The grim truth
That's the title of an article in National Review. What they mean, of course, is the grim possibility of a Democratic sweep next year. (Hat tip to Daily Kos.)
NR warns its readers that
Quote:
It's almost impossible to exaggerate the Democratic advantage on domestic issues: If it's an issue, they lead.

And their greatest fear is that if the Democrats do win,
Quote:
It would probably also mean a national health-insurance program that would irrevocably expand government involvement in the economy and American life, and itself make voters less likely to turn toward conservatism in the future.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

Krugman has argued this previously and does so in detail in his new book. He has it exactly right. We'll recall that this rationale and strategy is precisely what Bill Kristol forwarded in '94...
Quote:
December 2, 1993 - Leading conservative operative William Kristol privately circulates a strategy document to Republicans in Congress. Kristol writes that congressional Republicans should work to "kill" -- not amend -- the Clinton plan because it presents a real danger to the Republican future: Its passage will give the Democrats a lock on the crucial middle-class vote and revive the reputation of the party. Nearly a full year before Republicans will unite behind the "Contract With America," Kristol has provided the rationale and the steel for them to achieve their aims of winning control of Congress and becoming America's majority party. Killing health care will serve both ends. The timing of the memo dovetails with a growing private consensus among Republicans that all-out opposition to the Clinton plan is in their best political interest. Until the memo surfaces, most opponents prefer behind-the-scenes warfare largely shielded from public view. The boldness of Kristol's strategy signals a new turn in the battle. Not only is it politically acceptable to criticize the Clinton plan on policy grounds, it is also politically advantageous. By the end of 1993, blocking reform poses little risk as the public becomes increasingly fearful of what it has heard about the Clinton plan.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health_debate_page2.html

Quote:
The stakes for each party -- as a party -- became very clear very fast. Democratic strategists were telling lawmakers that a health care bill was critical to their re-election efforts; a much-circulated memo by Mr. Kristol in December warned Republicans that passage of the Clinton plan "will revive the reputation of the party that spends and regulates, the Democrats, as the generous protector of middle-class interests."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950CE2DA1238F937A3575AC0A962958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

The memo is here http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/onprin/v2n1/kristol.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:20 am
addendum... a revitalization of the New Deal ethic/ideal/sense of community poses threats to a much greater sphere of business interests than those immediately associated with healthcare. If Krugman and Kristol are both correct in their estimations of how this might all play out as regards a shift in the electorate towards the traditional Democratic values, then the ramifications for countless business interests which have gained from Republican dominance will be significant.

The next year will be interesting and it will be serious.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2007 05:41 pm
Does anyone actually believe the following puff piece about Hillary?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8T8P3BG0&show_article=1

It is about the hostage crisis at her campaign headquarters.

I cant help but wonder why the AP is trying so hard to make her look "presidential".

There are several contradictions in the article, but this one is actually funny...

Quote:
Along with taking charge while giving the professionals free rein, Clinton offered up a third dimension to her crisis character: humanity. She said she felt "grave concern" when she first heard the news of the hostage-taking
.


So how does she "take charge" while still allowing the pro's "free rein"?
Did she require them to consult with her before they did their jobs?
Did she insist on approving their plans first?

And as for her "grave concern", I think everyone was concerned about what was going on and were hoping that everything would end peacefully.

All she did was stay in her DC home and watch what was going on, and talk to some people on the phone.
I am not making light of that, but the article makes it sound like everything worked out because of her actions.

So, am I wrong, and if so why?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2007 07:15 pm
No, you're not wrong, and the sentence you point out is indeed pretty funny. Hackneyed cliches that unintentionally clash. As for the why, I guess pieces like that are simply easily written...

Puff pieces abound, yesterday about Obama, today about Huckabee, and all the others, Hillary included, get in some as well - its just laziness, I guess. And probably also some semi-conscious urge to get in good stead with those powerful politicians - never know whether she might be the next Prez...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2007 08:45 pm
CLINTON, EDWARDS ON IRAN.

Or: one of these responses is straightforward and deservedly uses the opportunity to counter a wrongheaded Republican talking point; and Hillary's doesn't.

Quote:
Unlike Edwards, Clinton did not see fit to directly respond to today's National Intelligence Estimate questioning the existence of the much-hyped Iranian nuclear program. Instead, her campaign sent out a release from their "national security director":

    Statement from Lee Feinstein, Clinton Campaign National Security Director "The new declassified key judgments of the Iran NIE expose the latest effort by the Bush administration to distort intelligence to pursue its ideological ends. The assessment of the NIE vindicates the policy Senator Clinton will pursue as President: vigorous American-led diplomacy, close international cooperation, and effective economic pressure, with the prospect of carefully calibrated incentives if Iran addresses our concerns. Neither saber rattling nor unconditional meetings with Ahmadinejad will stop Iran's nuclear ambitions. Senator Clinton has the strength and experience to conduct the kind of vigorous diplomacy needed to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons."
Now compare that with John Edwards' statement:

    "The new National Intelligence Estimate shows that George Bush and Dick Cheney's rush to war with Iran is, in fact, a rush to war. The new NIE finds that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 and that Iran can be dissuaded from pursuing a nuclear weapon through diplomacy. This is exactly the reason that we must avoid radical steps like the Kyl-Lieberman bill declaring Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization, which needlessly took us closer to war. And it's why I have proposed that we pursue a comprehensive diplomatic approach instead."
One of these statements communicates the primary conclusions of the NIE, which is that the Iranian nuclear program has been dormant since 2003. The other doesn't say anything of the kind, and instead emphasizes the "vigorous diplomacy needed to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons" and "Iran's nuclear ambitions." One, in other words, uses the report to ratchet down tensions on Iran, the other uses it as an excuse to look tough. This is, to say the very least, a disappointing performance from the Clinton campaign. This country does not need a Democratic candidate dedicated to hyping threats to in order to score political points or imply their ceaseless willingness to take the country to war.

--Ezra Klein
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2007 08:58 pm
Edwards, Obama address predatory lending, credit card industry practices

Quote:

  • On Sunday, Edwards released his plan to address predatory lending and the abuses of the credit card industry. It includes creating a Family Savings and Credit Commission to review financial services products and provide guidance to help citizens determine whether the terms are reasonable and fairly disclosed. It also calls for federal programs to help non-profits and states provide low- or no-interest emergency loans.

  • Obama followed on Monday with his plan to reform credit card practices, which includes formalizing a "credit card bill of rights" for consumers and creating a credit card rating system run by the Federal Trade Commission that assesses consumer-friendliness of companies.

Here's the plans:

0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 6 Dec, 2007 07:08 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Hahah! Thanks for the explanation, I should have been more specific, and asked the question: What are the trends you may have noticed [when tracking the polls month by month], which haven't shown up yet [in the pollster.com graphs], specificially?

Hey Cyclo, I never answered this back then. But I kind of answered it yesterday or so on the Obama thread - at least for the Dem race in Iowa - when I posted a new graph there. So lemme cross-post that here.

nimh wrote:
OK, so I've been improvising a bit...

What I've been doing is taking the individual poll results (on both Iowa and NH, but right now I'm just talking Iowa), as registered on pollster.com, and calculating month-to-month averages for the period since June.

Well, as close to month-to-month averages as you can responsibly get, because I didnt want to base any averages on less than 5 polls at a time, so what you get is an average for June + July, one for August + most of September, one for late September + October, one for the first half of November, and one for the second half of November.

The result is a bit more sensitive to short-term trends than the pollster.com trendlines -- but also more vulnerable to the impact of outliers and other statistical "noise".

I've plotted the results out in this graph, on the right, with for comparison's sake the corresponding bit (1 June - 31 December) from the pollster.com graph on the left.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4601/pollstervsaveragesqm3.png

As you can see, the additional graph I made yields some extra stuff to speculate on. For example, it appears to show that in the first half of November, Hillary's rapid rise was suddenly reversed and she started losing support. At first, it was not Obama who was benefiting, however - he was stagnating, in fact. It seemed like Edwards and Richardson were picking up support instead. But then came the last two-three weeks, and now it's Obama who seems to be positively surging.

Are those short-term trends that the cautious pollster.com trendline doesnt pick up on (yet)? Or is it just random statistical variation, caused by the differences in methodologies of different pollsters, margins of error, etc? Quite possibly, a lot of it is the latter.

On Obama's steady rise in the Iowa polls, in any case, both graphs agree. They also agree that Richardson's best days are over, for now. The graph on the right does seem to show, at least, two additional developments that don't show up in the Pollster trendlines (yet?): Hillary's rise being actually reversed, not just weakened; and Edwards' fall being reversed as well, not just slowed down.

In addition, they may be showing that Obama now really has the momentum, with his rise in the polls escalating. But we'd better wait to see what, if any, impact the Hillary "hostage crisis" and her health care attacks on Obama will have - we should know more in a week or two!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 6 Dec, 2007 07:12 pm
OK, that was on Tuesday. Now here's the same graph today, slightly updated again; and then the one for the Democratic race in New Hampshire.


Iowa -- Democrats

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1291/iademswr9.png
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1291/iademswr9.446157e2d6.jpg


New Hampshire -- Democrats

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6578/nhdemsvt8.png
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6578/nhdemsvt8.8b8ab092b6.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 9 Dec, 2007 03:25 am
http://i18.tinypic.com/6sklfly.jpg


Online in The Observer: High noon in Iowa: one small state, one global decision
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sun 9 Dec, 2007 09:34 am
Quote:
Milestones: Hillary Rodham Clinton
An interactive timeline of Hillary Rodham Clinton's life and career.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/12/08/us/politics/20071114_CLINTON_TIMELINE.html#
0 Replies
 
 

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