Sharing thoughts from elsewhere about the Democratic debate last night:
From THE FIX at the WaPo:
New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton came under withering attack from her rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination tonight in Philadelphia on topics ranging from Iran to electability to immigration, emerging largely unscathed despite the near-relentless focus on her during the two-hour long debate. ...
Obama ... repeatedly sought to paint Clinton as unable or unwilling to be frank with voters about her positions on Social Security and Iran. "That may be politically savvy but it doesn't offer the clear contrast we need," Obama said.
It was former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), however, who offered up the most biting and direct criticism of Clinton during the debate's first hour.
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If Obama and Edwards want to turn this debate into a fight between themselves and Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner seems to want to make the fight one between herself and the current president.
In every answer in the debate so far, Clinton has referenced Bush ... Clinton's strategy in this debate appears to be to avoid any direct confrontation with her rivals (despite them doing their damndest to engage her) and instead keep her eye on the lead bogeyman for Democratic voters -- President Bush.
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Not a moment has passed in this debate where Clinton has not been at the center of the conversation. ...
From Edwards: "If people want the status quo, Senator Clinton is your candidate." He argued that Clinton has taken the most money from the health care industry, the defense industry and from Washington lobbyists. Edwards even threw in the kicker that perhaps the reason Clinton was the subject of so much talk among Republicans was because they may actually want to run against her.
Clinton AGAIN refused to engage, choosing to instead touch on a touchstone issue for the Democratic base. "I think we were making progress in the 1990s until the Supreme Court handed the presidency to George Bush," she said.
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From THE STUMP at TNR:
I saw another pretty strong night for Hillary Clinton in Philadelphia. On both substantive and stylistic levels we learned nothing virtually nothing new about the candidates tonight. In the media's funhouse of expectations and conventional wisdom, however, I suspect Barack Obama will again be judged to have come up a little flat. [..]
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The real development was the contrast between Obama and Edwards, both of whom were auditioning for the role of Clinton alternative [..].
Edwards struck me as more compelling, for two reasons. First, his delivery was far more confident and focused. Obama backed into his attack almost apologetically?-"some of this [expected confrontation] gets overhyped," he said at the outset, sounding a little jittery. "In fact, I think this has been the most hyped fight since Rocky Balboa fought Apollo Creed." He looked relieved after his opening salvo and conspicuously didn't invoke Clinton's name during his next few responses. It was as though, having finally proved he could challenge Clinton to her face, he was eager to resume his usual posture.
(Nimh: The guy would get murdered in a debate with Giuliani...)
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Edwards cut immediately to the issue of Clinton's honesty and kept pounding her over and over again. "Well, I just listened to what Senator Clinton said and she said she wanted to maximize pressure on the Bush administration," he harrumphed after Clinton explained her Iran position. "So the way to do that is to vote yes on a resolution that looks like it was written, literally, by the neo-cons?" The very next time Edwards had the floor, he landed a lacerating combination, first questioning Hillary's judgment, then her arrogance. "[W]hat I worry about is, if Bush invades Iran six months from now, I mean, are we going to hear: ?'If only I had known then what I know now?'"
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Obama .. shined when criticizing the GOP's policy priorities. "There's a building in the Cayman Islands that supposedly houses 12,000 U.S. corporations, which means it is either the largest building in the world or the biggest tax ripoff in the world," he said. "So there has to be a restoration of balance in our tax code
[C]losing loopholes and rolling back the Bush tax cuts to the top 1 percent, simply restores some fairness and a sense that we're all in this together, as opposed to each of us being in it on our own."
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I was also quite struck by this line from Clinton, a retort to the drumbeat she'd been getting from Edwards and Obama:
"Change is just a word if you don't have the strength and experience to make it happen."
How amazing that the one woman in the race can effectively call the men around her weak. But somehow she pulls it off. That's Hillary for you.
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From TAPPED at The American Prospect:
Obama implies that Democrats who supported the Iraq war in 2003 are "co-authors" of the disaster there. But he doesn't say who those folks are. Or if any of them are on stage with him.
So far, it's looking like the "Obama on the attack" meme was all hype. Edwards, on the other hand, is doing what he's done in all these events, talking about the "clear choice" between the candidates.
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CAN HILLARY BRING CHANGE? Edwards says, "I believe in Santa Claus, i believe in the Tooth Fairy, but i don't believe that's going to happen." Hillary Clinton represents the "status quo," he continues, detailing the corporate sectors that have contributed to her campaign.
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OK, this is now everybody -- and I do mean everybody -- against Clinton. It makes her look brave for just standing there, this small determined woman being attacked by three men on either side of her, two male moderators, and the entire male Republican field. Each of the critics on his own would be more effective, but taken as whole, the optics of this are uncomfortable.
Obama, to his credit, is trying to make the pivot to talking about the G.O.P., too, but he's even less inspiring on the offensive than when he tries on the stump to talk about something other than himself. Edwards is just more polished on the attack -- the difference between a law professor and a trial lawyer.
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HILLARY IS KICKIN' BUTT. She's tougher than Rudy, more experienced than Obama, done more for poor folks than Edwards, and smarter than everybody. That's the subtext of her responses on Social Security and her vote for the Iran resolution.
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It's a very quiet audience tonight at Drexel University, but Joe Biden cracks them up: "Rudy Giuliani, he only uses three words in a sentence: A noun, a verb, and 9/11."
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Obama claims Clinton won't admit that on Social Security, there's "an actuarial gap that has to be dealt with." .. She tries to rise above this, responding that there's isn't a great difference between her and Obama on Social Security, except that she articulates, again and again, that "fiscal responsibility" can't happen "on the backs" of the elderly or middle class. That seems like a good line to me.
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Mark my words: Chris Dodd's attack on Clinton for supporting "the privilege of a driver's liscence" for illegal immigrants, even though she said that's not, in fact, what she supports, is going to have legs. The issues of "privileges" for those who don't deserve them is a repeated Republican line of attack against Democrats who support rights for disenfranchised populations, and I was surprised to hear it coming from Dodd, of all people, as he's generally been to the left of the other senators.
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From KEVIN DRUM's blog at the Washington Monthly:
[T]he constant attacks did seem to keep Hillary back on her heels a bit. She was definitely even more ambiguous and turgid than usual.
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I left the room was just as Tim Russert started asking a question about Elliot Spitzer. Turned out he was asking Hillary Clinton about Spitzer's plan to provide driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, and if blogo-buzz is anything to go by it was the question of the night.
Here's the nickel summary: Hillary gave a rambling response explaining what Spitzer was trying to do but without really taking a position. Dodd disagreed with the Spitzer plan ("I think it's troublesome") and Hillary then stepped in to muddy the waters some more: "I did not say that it should be done," she said, "but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it." That was followed by some crosstalk between Dodd and Clinton, and then by Russert pressing her to give a firm answer ("Do you support his plan?"). Hillary hedged, and never really answered. ...
Kit Seelye of the New York Times provides the play-by-play:
Both Mr. Edwards and Mr. Obama called her on what seemed to be a shift in her statement. Mr Edwards said, "Unless I missed something, Senator Clinton said two different things in the course of about two minutes just a few minutes ago." And Mr. Obama uttered a devastating phrase for anyone who remembers the 2004 campaign: he said he couldn't tell if she is "for it or against it."
On the license issue, Mr. Obama said that he thinks Governor Spitzer's plan is "the right idea."
There's no question that Hillary's answer was unusually spineless, especially since she had had plenty of time to think about this. Maybe two solid hours of being a punching bag had gotten to her by that point.
Still, is this really a killer moment? If it is, the bar has really gotten pretty low.
THE FIX about the drivers license moment:
"What is the governor supposed to do?" Clinton asked. "We have failed, George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation of trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who is in New York, we want people to come out of the shadows. He's making an honest effort to do it. WE should have passed immigration reform."
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From JOSH MARSHALL's TPM:
Here's the thing with Hillary. Not always inspiring answers. But, man, she never flubs an answer. Simply unflappable. Like a machine. And I mean that as a compliment.
