E-mail is not French

sofia

When you read the given links (even those from the newspapers), you'll notice that this just concerns emails "in all government ministry's documents, publications or Web sites".

I've heard of a couple of private companies, who have something like this - my niece is working for an American company and has got a 24-site-handbook for language-use in letters and emails.

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Yes. I did notice. They have made it illegal for citizens, who are govt employees, to use the term 'e-mail'. They have to call it the term created by the French govt.

IMO, this is very heavy handed, and a weak, transparent slap to the originators of the term (and the technology.) I can imagine the hub-bub that would ensue if the US made such a move...

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Sofia - go back and read au's original post. It appears you may have misunderstood what is going on - it is about government documents. The French government is saying what words may/may not be used in government materials.

The whole protection of language issue has nothing to do with the U.S. it pre-dates the U.S.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0858274.html

Quote:

In 1635 the French Academy was founded by Cardinal Richelieu to maintain the purity of the language and its literature and to serve as the ultimate judge of approved usage. While the vocabulary and style of Modern French have been influenced by movements such as romanticism and realism, structurally French has changed comparatively little since the Middle French period.

It is not that different than requiring the OED be used when checking on English words.

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You see, sofia, this is a little but ricule:
you don't call a 'Bunsenbrenner', a "Geigerzähler", "Röntgenstrahlen" etc, by their original, proper names as well (just to mention a couple).

Very heavy handed, and a weak transparent slap to the originators of the term?

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Sofia - governments in English-speaking countries also have manuals indicating appropriate use of language. This is not particular to France.

http://archive.adaic.com/standards/

Quote:

Ada 95
The 1995 Ada Standard Language Reference Manual, Rationale, Style-Guide, Adoption Handbook, Transition Planning Guide, study notes, and comments.

Ada 83
The 1983 Ada Standard Language Reference Manual, Rationale, Style-Guide, comments, and issues.

ASIS
The Ada Semantic Interface Specification (ASIS) Standard has been published by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) -- 1999.

Military, National, & International
A copy MIL-STD-498 and its 22 Data item Descriptions (DIDs), the ISO standard, and NATO's adoption of Ada.

Standards Groups & Organizations
IEEE and other organizational working groups.

and then there is the
u.s. gov't printing office style manual

an excerpt :

Quote:

5. SPELLING

(See also ``Compounding Examples'' and ``Abbreviations and Letter
Symbols'')

5.1. The Government Printing Office uses Webster's Third New
International Dictionary as its guide for the spelling of words
not appearing in the Manual. Colloquial and dialect spellings
are not used unless required by the subject matter or specially
requested. The tendency of some producers of computer-assisted
publications to rely on the limited capability of some spell-
checking programs adds importance to the Manual's list.

Preferred and difficult spellings

5.2. In addition to indicating the preferred forms of words
with variant spellings, the list also contains other words
frequently misspelled or causing uncertainty. (See also ``Word
Division,'' a supplement to the Style Manual.)

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the table of contents

The United States Government Printing Office Style Manual 2000

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Well, and all this is paid with Thalers.

Oh, no, of course it's Dollar.

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I read it. Maybe you should read it, again.

The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail -- a claim some industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
"Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail' in English," the commission has ruled.
Calling it artificial

The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission said.
The 7-year-old commission has links to the Academie Francaise, the prestigious institution that has been one of the top opponents of allowing English terms to seep into French.
Some Internet industry experts say the decision is artificial and doesn't reflect reality.

I'm just agreeing with the article.

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It would be like us striking bijou, cafe, and similar French derivatives from our language, IMO.

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You are quoting in English, Sofia.

I didn't notice that this French law was originally written in a -for them- foreign language (what be quite funny regarding the content, although).

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Sofia, I really think it's a matter of context and perspective. English is much much more robust as a language than French. The French ALREADY have a bunch of English words that are elbowing their way into the language. They feel that their language is imperiled. It's beyond this one specific word.

Think of how riled up some people get about Spanish "taking over" America.

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Sofia wrote:

It would be like us striking bijou, cafe, and similar French derivatives from our language, IMO.

It would be like English dictionaries listing cafe, bijou & such as strictly French words. The difference is France has been trying to keep their language pure for centuries, unlike the US with English. As such, if the US did something like this with French words all of a sudden, I would be more easily convinced it was politically motivated.

edit: typos fixed

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I have been doing a Google search for how many English words have found their way into French -- this is about German, but still shows what I am talking about, how pervasive it is:

Quote:

Germans go "joggen" in the morning and use "Shampoo", "Bodylotion" or "Aftershave" before going to their "Job". Before "Lunch" they send "Faxes" or "Mails" to each other. They go to "Afterworkpartys" in "Clubs" and "Bars", drink "Cocktails" or "Milkshakes" before watching "Gameshows" and "Talkshows".

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/09/1049567749488.html

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soz

All those words are mentioned in our "Duden", which is similar to Merriam-Webster, Oxford Concise, Larousse etc.

re Fax: Faksimile is a German word since 17th century noted in German encyclopedias.

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And just an aside:
émail (m. émaux, pl) has been a common French word long before email was used as electonic mail

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And the German root of "bodylotion"...? Wink

Another article -- "cultural imperialism" in Google is getting me somewhere:

http://www.aef.com/channel.asp?ChannelID=7&DocID=1207&location=Global%20Advertising

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Sofia wrote:

Yes. I did notice. They have made it illegal for citizens, who are govt employees, to use the term 'e-mail'. They have to call it the term created by the French govt.

IMO, this is very heavy handed, and a weak, transparent slap to the originators of the term (and the technology.) I can imagine the hub-bub that would ensue if the US made such a move...

It is no more a slap to the originators of the term & technology than it is when people use foreign equivalents of terms like "h-bomb" or "e-marketing". Those are obviously English as well. The French don't use English in government documents.

Second, and as others have noted, it is not illegal. There would be no crime committed should someone disregard the government style guide, though they would likely find their document amended.

Japan actually has an entirely separate alphabet (called Katakana) which is only used when foreign words are mixed with Japanese. This is to keep the real Japanese pure & distinct, rather than for any political reasons.

edit: added katakana link

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

émail (m. émaux, pl) has been a common French word long before email was used as electonic mail

Interesting, Walter. So what does "émail" mean in French, then?

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Monger

The common use of this word is "dental enamel" and in the other meaning "enamel" (any online dictionary tells so).

L'Hachette, the French "Britannica", defines it in its 2002 edition like following

Quote:

émail n. masc. [plur. émaux ]Émails est parfois utilisé quand le mot désigne certains produits de revêtement.
1. Voir aussi... ARTS. Matière vitreuse, obtenue à partir de divers silicates avec adjonction de plomb (contrairement au cristal, dont l'émail se rapproche par sa composition ), colorée avec des oxydes métalliques (l'oxyde de cobalt pour le «bleu Limoges », par ex.) et utilisée pour réaliser des pièces sur supports métalliques (or, argent, cuivre, etc.). (Les émaux utilisés en poterie, pour la faïence, la porcelaine et les objets ménagers, sont d'une composition différente. Dans le domaine industriel, les pièces, décapées et dégraissées, sont soit immergées dans un bain d'émail en suspension dans l'eau, soit arrosées avec une suspension aqueuse d'émail. Après séchage, l'objet est passé au four. L'émail est également utilisé pour l'isolation des conducteurs électriques.)
2. Par ext. (surtout au pl.) Objet d'art ou d'artisanat traité à l'émail.Les émaux limousins.
3. Tissu très dur, hautement minéralisé, d'origine ectodermique, constituant la partie externe de la couronne de la dent.
4. Procédé employé en photogravure, à chaud ou à froid, qui permet la copie sur métal (l'émail recouvrant les parties devant résister à l'action des mordants ).
5. HÉRALD. Nom de certaines couleurs utilisées en héraldique : gueules (rouge ), azur (bleu ), sable (noir ), sinople (vert ), pourpre et orange (ces derniers sont peu employés ). V. métaux ; fourrures.

émailler v. trans.
1. Revêtir d'émail.
2. Fig. Parsemer (d'ornements ). Émailler une robe de broderies. Émailler un discours de citations. Iron.Un article émaillé de fautes.

émaillage n. masc. Action, art d'émailler (1) ; son résultat.

émaillerie n. fém. Art de fabriquer des émaux ; une des techniques de l'art de l'émail.

émailleur, euse n.
1. Artisan, artiste qui fait des émaux.
2. Ouvrier spécialisé dans l'émaillage d'objets métalliques.

émailleux, euse adj. Qui a l'aspect ou la nature de l'émail.

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Didja get all that, Monger?

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E-mail is not French

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