FreeDuck wrote:Foxfyre wrote:
You don't pay attention very well do you?
Why Foxfyre, that wasn't nice at all. In fact, it was a tad insulting.
Yup. Insulting the conservative way.
Quote:Quote:"The liberal way" is to focus on and criticize the person making the argument rather than focusing on the argument itself.
Great, now demonstrate how I have argued this way.
Okay, as one example there is this post of yours:
Quote:It was an "official" designation just a few sentences ago. Now, it's entirely self-defined as you say. What is that supposed to mean to me other than you are out of ammunition and are left with nothing but "label and dismiss" otherwise known as "the Foxfyre way"? Whatever tactic you choose now, one thing is obvious, you are out of ammunition, you have nothing left to argue, what feeble arguments you have presented have been obliterated with ease more than once, you've contradicted yourself more than once, and most importantly, you are no longer making sense.
Please show where in this you even attempted to address the issue of why or whether 'the liberal way' as I have defined it is correct or incorrect. It seems to me that you are totally focused on me and explaining my deficiencies to me. That, my friend, is 'the liberal way' of argument as I define it.
Quote:Quote:I wonder why the liberals are having so much problem explaining why the statement is not true rather than making post after post after post that supports my point of view on it?
I don't know about "the liberals" but several people have presented the case very well that what you say is at least applicable to both "sides" (as if there were only two) and at most flatly untrue. You haven't responded to those and haven't argued them but have instead resorted to dismissing people.
Really? Then I must not have been paying attention. I recall a lot of arguments, mostly focused on my deficiencies in argument as well as in other ways, explaining to me that I did not intend what I say I intended or that my definition is not the way I define the phrase, or that the phrase means what I say it does not mean. I don't recall a single post from anybody explaining how the phrase is incorrect as I define it. Kicky and perhaps a few others insist on changing the definition, but that isn't cricket so far as I am concerned. Perhaps I did overlook a rational argument dealing with the phrase as to its accuracy. If you would be so kind as to point it out, I will certainly acknowledge it.
Quote:Quote:
Out of ammunition? You've got to be kidding. You're the one who is focused on me and making characterizations about me....which, as I define it, is 'the liberal way' of argument.
Quote me or withdraw it. What characterizations about you have I made? I think you'll find that I characterize the way you debate. Which as you say, is permissible. After all, you have (mis)characterized the way I debate, have you not?
I'll refer you to your quote I used as an example earlier in this post. "Label and dismiss - the Foxfyre way" is a personally directed insult and characterization.
The only way I have characterized the way you debate is to point out that you are focused on me and explaining my shortcomings to me rather than attempting to show how 'the liberal way' has been mischaracterized. So how is that a mischaracterization?
Quote:Quote:I daresay I am certainly capable of contradicting myself, but I have not done so in this discussion. Let me redefine my point:
1) The phrase 'the liberal way" was directed to a specific person and was used in a specific context in a specific point that was being made. It was not me, but rather Kicky, who took it out of context and presented it as if it was a blanket statement.
How does this change anything?
Lordy, Lordy, you really DON'T pay attention do you? (Yes that was an insult.) I have explained it now so many times, however, that I doubt a further explanation would be useful for those who are determined not to allow me to define the term for which I am being criticized here.
Quote:Quote:2) In the way in which I used the phrase, "the liberal way" expresses my opinion that liberals are far more likely than conservatives to focus on and criticize and belittle or insult a person making a point or argument than they are likely to focus on the point or argument itself.
So why even type out number one and then flatly contradict it here. Either it was about that one person and the way they debate or it was generalized to mean that this is an inherently liberal trait. Which is it?
Again this has been fully explained more than once now. You either are unable to understand my point or won't. I won't presume which. I am not going to bow to the bait to keep repeating myself, however.
Quote:Quote:3) Finally, I offered several suggestions in which a similar phrases would be used in other circumstances to illustrate that the phrase was not intended to be a blanket condemnation of all liberals or all liberal arguments. The more honest on this thread will acknowledge that I quite clearly explained that by via those illustrations and previously to that as well.
Where are these more honest and noble debaters who can understand the distinction you are attempting to make?.
Apparently you aren't one.
Quote:By generalizing your insult, you indicate that more than just the poster you were speaking with are guilty of it, but fewer than all. Where does that leave someone who wonders which group they are in in your esteem and who wants to know whether they should respond to such an accusation? I find it weaselly and cowardly to phrase insults that way. Better to be direct and accept responsibility for your accusation
I didn't generalize the phrase when it was initially used nor even characterize it as an insult. Kicky did that. I have subsequently explained both the context and my intent in using it. If you don't accept that, that is certainly your prerogative as you have most certainly expressed quite well in 'the liberal way'. But you sure as hell haven't shown any evidence that you're right and I'm wrong. I accept full responsibility for the phrase as I used it and as I intended it. If it hurt your feelings, I will express regret for that and explain that this was not my intention. You will have to accept responsibility for your own feelings and perceptions.
Quote:Quote:Now if you can focus on these three things and represent them honestly, you can be pronounced cured of making your argument 'the liberal' way. Otherwise, you aren't going to 'get it right'.
Pronounced "cured" by who, the Queen? I'm really not interested in your arbitrary judgment of me and whether I "get it right". You are not someone I look to as an authority on this matter.
Wow you're really getting into this liberal way of argument. Scratch a liberal long enough, and that often happens. But I have never asked or even suggested to you that I be regarded as an authority on this matter or any other for that matter. That is a conclusion you apparently drew entirely on your own and can't support that any more than you can support any other presumptions your posts suggest that you are making or inferring about me.
It is funny however how the most judgmental among us come right out and judge others so easily. Don't you find that funny?
