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Thu 17 May, 2007 06:45 am
Tell me if I am wrong, but first a little background. I have been with my husband since I was 13 (if you can call it dating then!), I am now 27. We got married when I was 20 and very quickly had three children, now age 5, 3, and 2. I truly believed at one time this man was my soul mate, I lit up when he walked into a room and couldn't wait to spend every moment with him. I truly believe he felt the same way. Over the past 5 years this has changed significantly. We have grown apart. I grew up and accepted the responsibility that came into our lives, he rejected it and started pushing me away. Now, our home feels like we are room mates that sleep together. I have lost my respect and trust that I had for him.....Some examples as to why? The first would be about four years ago. I wanted to go back to school and finish my college degree, my husband didn't want me to. He wanted to have another child. I only had a year left and thought we had agreed that when I was almost done with that year, we would get pregnant again. I was not on birth control (could never take it due to how my body reacted to it), but we were using condoms and such. He purposely tampered with the birth control we were using and I ended up pregnant. It was a horrible pregnancy (I was on bedrest for 7 months of it) and became very depressed. He told me that he had tampered with stuff after my son was born. I love my son and foregave him. I went back to school at this point and he refused to help me with the kids. At the time, I had a 2 year old and a newborn at home. He would not help me with the chores around the house so that I could do my homework. I would stay up half the night to get everything done; his reason and yes he did say this to me was that 'going back to school was my decision not his.' This went on for the next year until I graduated; I did it myself and am proud of that. This is when I truly lost my respect for the man. I tried to get him to go to counseling to work things out between us and he did for a while until he decided it was stupid and quit going. I ended up pregnant again and our third child was born. With all of my kids, I had c-sections. When I had my last child, he refused to take a week off work to help me when we got out of the hospital. He wanted to save his vacation for hunting season. I don't have a family support circle to rely on.....never really have so I was on my own with three babies to take care of as soon as I left the hospital. It was tough but I made it through. Since then (about two years ago), things have stayed about the same. He doesn't put me or the kids needs first, but if a neighbor or friend needs something he is there on the drop of a hat. For example, just last night my daughter lost a tooth. He works second shift and I asked him to do the tooth fairy thing when he came home (leave money under the pillow). I even left a note on the door to remind him.....my daughter woke up in tears this morning because the tooth fairy forgot about her. I had to make up some big story about how a ton of kids lost teeth yesterday and she left a note that she got backlogged and had to come tonight. She bought it, but that wasn't the point, I can't trust him to do anything anymore. I said something to him and he just looked at me and said 'sorry' then rolled over and went back to sleep. All in all, I have accepted that my marriage is over. I could walk away right now knowing that I gave it my all and have no regrets. I am a strong enough person I would be fine. I know leaving is in the future, but right now, financially I am not ready to do it yet. With him on second shift, we don't see each other anymore and that is fine with me. What I need now though is some adult conversation, I need someone to talk to, someone that looks forward to talking to me. I want to feel like someone, besides my children, needs me. Now here is the part that I need your opinions on....I want that person to be a male. I have girlfriends, but its not the same. They are all married and everything is hunky dorey in their lives. I talk to them and to no one's fault I am jealous of what they have and end up leaving the conversations depressed. Don't get me wrong, though I am not happy, I won't cheat. I am not looking for a boyfriend. I would be 100% honest with my husband and if I thought I was going to cheat, he would know about it. I couldn't do that to him or anyone no matter how they treat me. I truly want a male friend....is that wrong.
It's not wrong per se, but it's suspect. Why must this friend be male? If you are looking for a different kind of friendship than you have with female friends now, why not look for that friendship, in general?
While I am extremely sympathetic to your plight and hope that things end well for you, I have to say that my impression is that you are hoping for a situation in which you are appreciated as a woman -- that some flirting happens, that the man has a crush on you perhaps. Even if you have no intention of actually cheating, that whole situation sounds dangerous to me. While I can't know anything for certain, I'd really not be surprised if you did this and then came back after several months and said "we just got along so well and he was such a great listener and things felt so right with him and then one day we kissed, and, well..."
You have a messy situation on your hands, with three small children involved. I really encourage you to deal with that before borrowing trouble.
I know this won't help you much, but for whatever it's worth...from the sound of things, you did things right, but he did things wrong. If I were his brother, I'd slap him. That is my gut reaction to his betrayal and his disgusting behavior. Family is a blessing..plain and simple.
He's not mature..not responsible..to you or his family. He manipulated you...and tricked you into one more child by tampering with birth control. He tried to prevent you from bettering yourself with college. That is a colossal betrayal, to say the least...and it displays his insecurities.
This sort of situation reminds me of a botanist trying to do an unsuccessful graft. You just can't get this graft to take. He rejects what a family and a marriage is all about as he showed that as soon as children came he wanted nothing to do with it.
You gave him all the chances and it NOW is up to him to reform his ways. Either he gets the impact and importance of this or not. What do HIS parents and siblings have to say..or do about this? It's your last refuge and glimmer of help. Perhaps a family intervention can help?
As far as any other male friendships go, I'd wait. Your situation is far too complicated now for you to offer much to someone, and you may be flirting with danger. As tempting as it my seem - even innocent - you are better off straightening this marriage out first. I'd get a legal separation. at least before pursuing anything else....even friendships.
You sound like you understand your options. I wish you the best...really. I'll let others make comments and check back later.
Strongatheart--
You are hurt, you are lonely.
Quote:What I need now though is some adult conversation, I need someone to talk to, someone that looks forward to talking to me. I want to feel like someone, besides my children, needs me.
Now here is the part that I need your opinions on....I want that person to be a male. I have girlfriends, but its not the same. They are all married and everything is hunky dorey in their lives. I talk to them and to no one's fault I am jealous of what they have and end up leaving the conversations depressed.
Don't get me wrong, though I am not happy, I won't cheat. I am not looking for a boyfriend. I would be 100% honest with my husband and if I thought I was going to cheat, he would know about it. I couldn't do that to him or anyone no matter how they treat me. I truly want a male friend....is that wrong.
Some women want to go out and eat worms. Some women want to go out and play with fire. You seem to be moving from eating worms to playing with fire.
Do you have a man in mind to play with?
You are a woman with three kids and a college degree. You have lots of choices for adult activities. The fact that you are thinking of crying on an understanding male shoulder--absolutely platonically, of course--means that you're aching for love. Soulful talk and a bit of sobbing can open the way to an affair that you didn't "mean" to have.
You have a lot of resentment towards your husband. From your description he wants to be One of the Boys with a large and loving family which you will take care of. Is there any chance that you two can get counselling together? Can you go by yourself?
You don't need to talk about your problems--you need to solve your problems. Perhaps the answer is better communication with the man you have. Perhaps the answer is divorce. Perhaps you can find satisfaction in an imperfect marriage in a hobby or a cause.
Don't play with fire--your kids could be badly hurt.
Just a question: why didn't you leave him? Because for me the situation looks horrible, you said it started years ago and yet you decided to have a third child... Why? Don't the children see or feel what happens between the two of you?
I know, i may not sound very empathetic asking all these questions, but believe me your story cut me to the heart. And I think that you are indeed strong at heart. But you have to have respect for yourself, or more important - love. You can only be happy in relationships when you truly love yourself (not egoistically, but appreciate who you are and what you deserve). Otherwise you will sooner or later come to the end of your energy and love not only for your husband, but for your children as well.
As to your friends, bullshit, what do they mean your story gets them depressed? Do they care for you at all?? That's why i just think that you need a good friend, regardless of his sex. You may have experienced close relationships only with your husband and therefore think that only males can give you that kind of feelings and fill you up with warmth. That's not true. This person can be anybody!
Re: Tell me if I am wrong.....
StrongatHeart wrote:What I need now though is some adult conversation, I need someone to talk to, someone that looks forward to talking to me. I want to feel like someone, besides my children, needs me. Now here is the part that I need your opinions on....I want that person to be a male. I have girlfriends, but its not the same. They are all married and everything is hunky dorey in their lives. I talk to them and to no one's fault I am jealous of what they have and end up leaving the conversations depressed. Don't get me wrong, though I am not happy, I won't cheat. I am not looking for a boyfriend. I would be 100% honest with my husband and if I thought I was going to cheat, he would know about it. I couldn't do that to him or anyone no matter how they treat me. I truly want a male friend....is that wrong.
Well...... let me ask this: What does this guy get out of all of this?
You don't want a boyfriend but you want someone that needs you. So where does that leave him? We guys aren't all that complicated but we generally don't get to needing someone just for the heck of it.
There might be a guy or two out there that are in the same sort of situation your are in and are just looking for someone to talk to and feel needed by too but the odds of you finding one local to you is probably very, very low.
So, maybe you won't cheat on your husband. That's fine - no problem with that at all. Is he supposed to invest his time/energy/emotions in building a friendship with you just for the sake of being your friend? Again, not to say that is impossible to find but I'd say it is rare enough.
So while you may not be looking for a boyfriend, there isn't much of a chance IMO, of finding a guy that is going to go along with you here without looking for a girlfriend.
Someone is going to end up with problems at some point down the road here.
tell me if I am wrong....
First of all thanks for everyones comments so far. I just need a sounding board and I guess I was hoping to get put in my place a little bit. To answer some of your questions, I agree that it sounds suspect. I don't know why this person has to be male. I have generally always felt more comfortable talking to male friends. My 2 best friends growing up were male, unfortunately I don't have any close to me anymore. My girl friends are supportive but they just haven't been there nor can they relate. Maybe I just need someone who can relate regardless of gender. I don't want nor am I ready for another love relationship and agree I have to end it with my husband before I look for that bond that I am missing somewhere else. I wouldn't want to hurt my kids and right now, because we are working opposite shifts and only see each other on weekends, we have hidden this from them. I won' t have them drug into it. Thanks sozobe.
Ragman, awesome points. I think that my husband has severe insecurities, but the farther he pushes me away the more independent I become and I think that scares him...you would think that would scare him to pay more attention to us. His parents marriage is odd to say the least. Everything is separate from money to their plans. I think that has a lot to do with the way my husband is and I have made excuses for it, but that is not how I want my house. I have had my husbands cousin (who is also my husbands best friend) talk to him several times in the past and it hasn't worked. His cousin has even told me that he didn't think my husband would ever change. So why haven't I left.....long story short, I live about an hour from my family who isn't very supportive anyway. I also have horses (my hobby) and I can't just go and get an apartment and keep them. I also like to rescue animals. I have 4 dogs that I love like they are my kids. Selfish maybe, but I am tired of giving things up, I don't want to give up my animals, they are my release. We have talked about him leaving but the kink is that his dad helped him buy the house and land (kind of like a land contract) before we got married. Though it was both of our decisions to do it, everything is in his name and I have no rights to it....legally. I need to get financially in a better place to be able to afford to buy a home on my own and have been working diligently in that direction for a while now. In the meantime, I just try to get through day by day. To answer your other question, we have gone to counseling together. He thought it was stupid and quit going. I kept going and started working on myself. I went for about a year and now I feel good about myself and what I have become and like I said I have accepted the situation I am in for now and know that it is temporary.
Noddy24, no I don't have a man in mind and I agree and maybe subconsiously think that I want a friendship to turn into more. Your right though, it is not the right time. It isn't fair to my kids or me. I don't want to hurt my husband, I just need that communication to be taking place with someone. I don't even care if this someone is a person I would ever meet. I have turned to the internet to release some of these pent up feelings hoping that it will keep me going for just a while longer, I am even hoping for an online penpal so to speak to talk to.
Velvett, the third child was conceived while we were going to counseling and was completely an accident. I thought when we first started counseling things were getting a bit better and we started to reconsile a bit hence the sex coming back into play. I had no intentions on ever having more than two kids but now she is here and I love her to death! My girl friends try to be helpful and they listen to what I say and offer what they can....I am the one who gets depressed seeing how good their marriages are, not them. They are good friends, but haven't been through anything even close to this so it is tough to talk to them.
I hope I am not coming across as a sob story to anyone, I dont' want pity, I just need to be set straight. Thanks for all the comments, they are all truly appreciated.
tell me if I am wrong....
fishin, the guy or friend which I think I need would also get someone to relate to, someone that has been down the path of a bad marriage; someone to talk to so that they don't feel so alone, someone that can help them get through it. I think there are a lot of people out there that feel alone and could use a good friend to be there for them.
Re: tell me if I am wrong....
StrongatHeart wrote:fishin, the guy or friend which I think I need would also get someone to relate to, someone that has been down the path of a bad marriage; someone to talk to so that they don't feel so alone, someone that can help them get through it. I think there are a lot of people out there that feel alone and could use a good friend to be there for them.
Oh, I don't don't disagree with that at all. I just don't think you'll find that it ends at friendship. That might be a line you would want to draw. I don't think you'll find many guys that want to draw the line in the same place though.
The funny thing is, as I read your first post it reminded me of a recent episode of the TV program "According to Jim" where Jim's wife wants a male friiend and they decide that her finding a gay male friend is the answer and Jim goes off in search of a gay guy for his wife to buddy around with.
tell me if I am wrong....
fishin....never thought of that but that would be perfect! I guess I will have to find a new gay friend....hehehe
Funny thing too....one of my best friends in high school was gay. He moved across the country and never really grew up so he doensn't make a very reliable friend anymore, but that was the perfect friendship, we could talk about everything and I never had to worry about impressions around him.
I understand your feelings and your situation, StrongatHeart.
And...this is exactly how affairs start.
Hello Strongheart, and welcome to a2k
First of all, kudos to you!! You truly show great strength and endurance in
what you've achieved so far without the help of your husband. Raising your children while going to college and graduating is admirable, and shows your dedication and determination all the more.
If I were you, I'd consult a family lawyer concerning your financial situation and get as much information as possible. Your home might be in your husbands name, but it doesn't mean you have no entitlement to it. If anyone had to leave the house, it would be him and not you and the children, but as I said, get legal counseling, establish your own bank
account and try to be financially independent as much as you can.
Your husband has proven to be like an iron ball on your ankle, and I'm afraid that's not going to change.
You are only 27 years old, you still have a great life ahead of you,
and I wish you all the happiness in this world.
CalamityJane wrote:If anyone had to leave the house, it would be him and not you and the children....
*Grrr* Why do women always make this statement? First of all, it's not true and second of all, it's sexist. It plays into the crazy notion that women have an automatic right to custody of any children in case of a divorce or seperation.
Why are you generalizing, fishin'?
I am answering to Strongheart's post, and given the track record
of her husband's involvement with the children, it would be clear who
is the responsible party here and able to take custody of the children.
I'm not globalizing my statement for all women on earth.
tell me if I am wrong....
Good point Eva........good point
hmmm...considering how your husband behaves, re trying to tie you down to house and children, how do you think he would deal with you having a male friend.
My guess is, not very well.
Or, is that what you may be trying to accomplish? You get a male friend, he doesn't like it, and it's the final straw that brings your house of cards crashing down.
Well, at least it would bring everything out in the open, and deciding to divorce would be something HE brings up.
So far, you've let him make all the important calls, are you trying to get him to make this one too?
Your marriage doesn't sound strong enough to take that.
CalamityJane wrote:Why are you generalizing, fishin'?
Because in about half the threads that get posted in discussion forums when there is a thread where a woman mentions a possible divorce and there are children involved, some other woman makes a comment about how she'll get the house, the husband will be forced to move out, she'll get custody or that they can't beleive that any woman wouldn't automatically get custody, etc...
Quote:I am answering to Strongheart's post, and given the track record
of her husband's involvement with the children, it would be clear who
is the responsible party here and able to take custody of the children.
And you've done that based on one very brief posting without any information from the other side of the story. There isn't enough of any track record to make any judgement about what will or won't happen. IOW, it is based on a lot of assumptions.
Quote:
I'm not globalizing my statement for all women on earth.
Perhaps not - but you did make a very solid statement proclaiming that he would be forced out of the house when none of us know much of anything about the whole stoiry. There was no "should", "could" or "might" in your statement. You stated it as fact and that simply isn't the case.
Quote:And you've done that based on one very brief posting without any information from the other side of the story. There isn't enough of any track record to make any judgement about what will or won't happen. IOW, it is based on a lot of assumptions.
Don't we all give advice on very brief postings without hearing the other
side of the story?
Plus we do pass judgement with every post in giving our advice, you too, in case you don't remember
By the way, I have a "would" in there. Regardless, I did advice her
to seek out legal counseling, and I think that's the right thing to do.
Chai wrote:hmmm...considering how your husband behaves, re trying to tie you down to house and children, how do you think he would deal with you having a male friend.
My guess is, not very well.
Or, is that what you may be trying to accomplish? You get a male friend, he doesn't like it, and it's the final straw that brings your house of cards crashing down.
Well, at least it would bring everything out in the open, and deciding to divorce would be something HE brings up.
So far, you've let him make all the important calls, are you trying to get him to make this one too?
Your marriage doesn't sound strong enough to take that.
I guess the most polite way to put it.....I don't care at this point how he feels about it. I don't want to hurt him, but I don't want to have my needs put aside anymore either. We are very open about the issues that we have and I have spoken to him about needing someone to communicate with and feeling lonely. He has had and still has every opportunity to rectify this. The way I see it, I have in a way allowed him to carry on without responsibility to our family or our marriage so far. I just keep absorbing more and more and he hasn't had to deal with any negative effects from it. This would be a negative effect to him that may be the spark he needs to realize I am going to have my needs met. I would be honest with him and let him know that I met someone (girl or guy) to discuss our problems with and if it bothers him, then so be it. At this point, I just want to start putting a support system into place for myself. I have gone a long, long time without one and I don't like it.
I really think you need to separate those things, StrongatHeart. Support system, great. Purposely provoking your husband, not great. It just won't help.
It seems like you consider the marriage over but you don't want to give up certain financial comforts -- that's understandable, but the stakes are really high here. He's going to have to give some things up when you split up, too. It's going to be painful for everyone, no matter what.
You've tried counseling and it didn't work. I'd really recommend that you go ahead and say (if you haven't already) that if he refuses to try to fix things -- such as refusing to see a counselor -- that you're ready to leave.
Maybe he'll agree. Maybe he won't. But that will be far more mature and more likely to yield dividends than this abstract "maybe this'll get him to pay attention to me" idea. It's very, very dangerous.
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