Illegal Immigration

There already exists a path to citizenship with right!!! They refuse to follow it. If they cannot abide by these laws to become a citizen, why should we believe they'll abide by any other laws once they get here?

You keep mentioning the church... just because a church does or supports something doesn't make it correct.

USAF: You keep mentioning the church... just because a church does or supports something doesn't make it correct.

That should be obvious to anybody able to read, because church and pedophile has a long history..

Apparently it's not obvious to everyone. :-)

This is an fake line of argument. For a couple of reasons.

A path to citizenship is the most important issue. Most of the 12 million people we are talking about have never had a path to citizenship (legal or otherwise) ever. If we provide them with a path to citizenhip, most will take it immediately.

As far as the "refusal" to abide by laws, we can discuss this in a more appropriate thread.

I am bringing up the Evangelical church to counter the fake argument that the only reason Americans support immigrant rights is for "cheap labor".

This is an insult to millions of Americans who support compassionate immigration reform based on their values.

You are insulting Americans by lying about their motives.

I don't understand how you can say there is no path to citizenship. There is. You can apply for citizenship through the office of immigration and naturalization. Case in point: Arnold Schwartzeneiger is a legal, naturalized citizen of this country who was born in Austria.

Read carefully, and then respond to what I said...



The 12 million people we are discussing are not Arnold.

that 5 grand it costs to become a citizen woul d be better spent on feeding their families, yes these people choose to feed their families over obeying a law.

I know i know! what are they thinking? PREPOSTEROUS!

We're all jumping the gun; congress has not enforced past immigration laws, and they are now having problems making up new ones for the 12 million plus illegals in this country. More illegals keep coming through our borders, and the governments inability to control our borders while trying to create new laws is ridiculous! If past immigration laws are any indication of how new laws will be enforced, it's a big waste of time. Somebody with enough gumption has to stop the flow, then enforce the laws already on the books. That's step one; then they can consider revising the laws they wish to enforce in the future. All else is futile.

Cicerone,

You have your priorities, I have different priorities. To me, and to many other Americans, compassion for the people who are here is very important.

Nothing will be done without compromise. The compromise that will work is obvious-- a path to citizenship combined with increased border and workplace enforcement.

The defeat of the compromise was not a victory for either side. It is, in fact, a bad thing for the country that the status quo will continue.

The hardliners who are opposing compromise are celebrating. But it is the politicians (mainly Republican) who couldn't do what it took when the opportunity for a resolution came who are responsible for two more years of the same. The only consolation is that historically, American voters punish this kind of obdurate refusal to agree on a solution.

This isn't good for anyone.

Compassion is misplaced when we don't even know what the immigration laws will look like when congress gets their jobs done.

There are two sides to this issue, and no side seems to be able to compromise their position. You got solutions? Tell congress. I'm only an observer.

My compassion is spent on universal health care; I've advocated for universal health care for as long as I can remember. I believe universal health care has a much better chance for our country than any new immigration laws. It's only being "realistic" about what our government will do and will not do, or is capable of addressing on a national level. Our county has universal health care for all children. Arnold is even talking about a state universal health care. It's got much support from both the citizens and governments in California.

My side did compromise. This bill had things that people on my side liked (the path to citizenship), and this bill had things that people on my side didn't like (the touchback provision, high fines and loss of family ties).

That is what a compromise looks like. It was the Republicans, reacting to the hardliners in their base that killed this compromise.

((By the way, I agree with you on health care))

June 9, 2007
Kennedy Plea Was Last Gasp for Immigration Bill
By CARL HULSE
This article was reported by Carl Hulse, Robert Pear and Jeff Zeleny and written by Mr. Hulse.

WASHINGTON, June 8 ?- It was the moment of truth for legislation that would make the most profound changes in immigration policy in more than 20 years.

Desperate to salvage a measure in which he and others had invested months, Senator Edward M. Kennedy headed to the secluded Capitol suite of Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, to make one last personal plea.

Mr. Kennedy, an immigration advocate since his first days in the Senate nearly 45 years ago, hoped to persuade Mr. Reid to delay a procedural vote that could kill the measure. As the two met shortly after 7 p.m. on Thursday in the well-appointed office that overlooks the Mall, Mr. Reid told Mr. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, that Republicans would just endlessly stall the bill and that it was time to move on. Mr. Reid had already granted enough extensions.

Just minutes before that meeting, Senate Republicans in the middle of the immigration fight had ended an hours-long huddle at which they argued over what demands they would make in exchange for agreeing to cap the debate time. But they could not see eye to eye among themselves and ultimately filed empty-handed out of the office of Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader.

Within two hours, the centerpiece of President Bush's remaining domestic agenda and what many people saw as the best chance to get a handle on the worsening immigration problem, was yanked from the floor. Two weeks of debate had failed to stem attacks from critics on the right and left; 38 Republicans, 11 Democrats and 1 independent rejected Mr. Reid's call to limit debate and head toward a resolution.

This account is based on interviews with senators, administration officials and others who spent much of the week in the Capitol as the Senate debated the bill.

"People on opposite sides of the political spectrum, in effect, banded together to defeat the middle," said James G. Gimpel, a professor at the University of Maryland who has written a book on the politics of immigration. "Restrictionists on the right were always against the bill because they opposed any legalization for illegal immigrants.

"Business groups and their allies, including advocates for immigrant rights, lost much of their ardor for the bill because of changes made in the legislative process."

That vote might have been the telling blow for the measure. Lawmakers, officials and activists engaged in creating and ?- at least for the moment ?- unraveling the bill say it was undone for complex and interrelated reasons.

The leaderships of both parties kept their distance from the start. Mr. Reid, Democrat of Nevada, was ambivalent about the policy and political merits of the approach. Mr. McConnell, his counterpart, found himself caught among diehard Republican opponents, lawmakers open to persuasion and a president eager for a victory.

President Bush found himself at odds with many in his own party. And there was little appetite in the House for the bills among Democrats or Republicans, hence adding little pressure on the Senate to produce.

The creation of the bill, too, was highly unorthodox. Even participants in the private negotiations that led to the so-called grand bargain say their very approach created problems, producing contentious legislation embraced by the participants but met with skepticism by other lawmakers, the public and groups like organized labor and conservative research organizations. "The chance to create meaningful immigration reform legislation was lost the moment the bill emerged from its closed-door meeting with an immediate path to amnesty for anywhere from 12 million to 20 million illegal immigrants," Senator James M. Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma, said in hailing the defeat of the bill.

"This agreement was reached between a handful of senators," said Senator Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico, one of the Democrats who balked and voted against limiting debate. "That should not be considered a substitute for deliberation by the full Senate."

As lawmakers began to contend with the collapse of the bill, the effort to distribute blame picked up where the debate left off.

many of these people pay that $5000 to coyotes to get them across the border anyway. so when they become citizens and moves their families, which tend to be large here.... what are we going to do? they are unskilled labor so they won't make enough money to support themselves in our economy. which means they will end up on social wellfare programs and will end up being an even larger drain on our economy. **** - we might as well just anex mexico at this rate.

Why reward them though for breaking our laws. Deport them and let them become citizens the right way. The LEGAL way.

If a man comes and asks for work it isn't my duty to query him or her on any subject that does not affect his ability to do the job.

As an appreciative native citizen of the United States I have a lot of compassion for people who were born and required to live under a government that is even more corrupt than the one that currently runs the United States.

I cannot support a "Berlin Wall" in Texas.

If a government cannot assure an opportunity for it's citizens to aspire to a decent life then it is illegitimate, incompetent,and corrupt. This is the condition in most of the world.

I could support "Regime Change" for Mexico and much of the Americas. We have done so well with it in Viet-Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq.

The United States immigration problem is caused by failing, or failed government policies in the U.S., Mexico, Cuba, and others. It certainly is not the fault of the person who is forced to leave friends, family, and familiarity to seek his livelihood someplace else

Personally I think that Mr.Guillotines invention does not suffer from overuse. Violation of the public trust is probably the most serious offense against humanity. It is being violated in almost every country in the world today.

akaMechs, Couldn't have said it any better myself. Thank you! Some people forget we're all humans on this planet trying to do well for our family and children. Many seem to lose that simple perspective.

Immigration is only an issue when the Caucasian or Christian majority is threatened. See Immigration act of 1885.

When nothing but european immigrants were coming into the united states at first there were controlled communities. After time, these communities began intemingling and marrying. This was a melting pot. Hooray!

Then there were slaves, and then they were free. Then came the Chinese, and of course there were always the Native tribes in North America.

We have this hilarious notion of America being a melting pot, but European americans aren't willing to melt. They see it fit and propper for immigrants to come over to America as long as they are willing to assimilate American traditions, but never ever entertain the notion that these immigrants have the right to come over and influence the local, state and national homogeny. Ridiculous.

However, I do agree with pundits that immigrants should learn english, but not for their reasons. I'd encourage any human to learn english, just for it's universal use across the globe. I don't think it needs to be the official language of the USA, english is already the National language, and that is good enough.

White, Christian, English speakers are just terrified that their kid may come home one day with a sun tan and say "buenas dias" then watch Islamic cartoons for kids. Holy calamity! Scream insanity!

Diest, Not totally true; our (Japanese) family is now made up of (many)Chinese (something I never anticipated as a youngster growing up in Sacramento), Dutch, German, Italian, Polynesian, British, black, Hispanic, and even some Japanese. My younger brother is a state legislator, and I was fortunate to have lunch with Norm Mineta when he was a congressman. My older brother introduced me to Mike Honda some years ago. There are several Asians in the California legislature, so Asians are making a difference.