1
   

Information Control or how to get to Orwellian governance II

 
 
jespah
 
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 03:42 am
This is a successor topic to http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69502
Below I have copied the first post of that topic.
Thank you.

blatham wrote:
If this news item below represented something new or unique, it would be noteworthy. But it is nothing new.

We already know that this administration plants faux news stories in both domestic and foreign media, stories composed by US intelligence or by PR firms (eg Lincoln Group) working for intelligence/Pentagon programs or by political operatives seeking to forward administration domestic policies.

We already know that there are blogs and letters pretending to be from Private Joe Shmoe serving dutifully in Iraq which have the same intel-created sources.

We already know about Fox... http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqMedia_Oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf

And, we already know how disciplined this administration is in operational secrecy (a discipline and policy which extends far past intel procedures) to internal political workings and the full range of domestic governance as well. Anything which might embarrass the administration is stonewalled. Any investigation by congress or the senate or independent investigators which might reveal questionable legality of operation or duplicitous statements is met with resistance, refusal, and ad hominem smear campaigns. The immediate and concerted attacks on any whistleblower (Able Danger people, Plame, NASA scientists, EPA scientists, etc etc) has, like all else above, the goal of information control.

Likewise, the concerted attacks on an independent press through attempts to portray that press as untrustworthy and biased and through marginalizing such independent (thus, possibly critical) media by utilizing a separate media system which can be depended upon to forward pretty much whatever this administration wishes it to forward. Media as propaganda arm. Note how frequently Fox, not to mention conservative radio, forwards the necessary propaganda pre-notion that "the mainstream media" is not to be trusted.

Per the PDF above, we know that Americans who attend to Fox and conservative radio are far more likely to hold fallacious ideas (which appear to support the administration's policies and statements) than are those who attend to other media (eg, connections between Osama and Sadaam, whether WOMD were found, whether the rest of the world supports Bush policies, etc). Per the PDF, we also know that on the other end of that scale, the people who attend to PBS and NPR are far more likely to hold ideas which comport with factually accurate ideas.

And we know what this administration has tried to do to PBS and NPR.

We know that Cheney attempted, while working under Ford, to get Ford to veto the Freedom of Information Act.

Now look at what Rumsfeld said yesterday and consider it in relation to all the above...the means/rationale for information control. And, try to square some of his claims with anything sensible.


Quote:
Rumsfeld Urges Using Media to Fight Terror

By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 18, 2006; Page A07

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld yesterday called for the military and other government agencies to mount a far more aggressive, swift and nontraditional information campaign to counter the messages of extremist and terrorist groups in the world media.

Rumsfeld criticized the absence of a "strategic communications framework" for fighting terrorism. He also lashed out at the U.S. media, which he blamed for effectively halting recent U.S. military initiatives in the information realm -- such as paying to place articles in Iraqi newspapers -- through an "explosion of critical press stories."

The speech follows a top-level review of Pentagon strategy and resources released earlier this month that concluded: "Victory in the long war ultimately depends on strategic communication." The Quadrennial Defense Review called for closing gaps in U.S. capabilities in what the Pentagon describes as "information operations," an area being reorganized in the Pentagon, according to current and former defense officials.

"Our enemies have skillfully adapted to fighting wars in today's media age, but for the most part we, our country, our government, has not," Rumsfeld said in remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. He said that while the al Qaeda terrorist network and other "extremist" movements "have successfully . . . poisoned the Muslim public's view of the West, we in the government have barely even begun to compete in reaching their audiences."

U.S. public affairs operations tend to be "reactive rather than proactive," Rumsfeld said, operating slowly during standard working hours while "our enemies are operating 24/7 across every time zone. That is an unacceptably dangerous deficiency."

To remedy this, he called for increased communications training for military public affairs officials by drawing on private-sector expertise, noting that public affairs jobs in the military have not been "career enhancing." He also called for creating 24-hour media operations centers and "multifaceted media campaigns" using the Internet, blogs and satellite television that "will result in much less reliance on the traditional print press."

Rumsfeld criticized the U.S. media for hampering such initiatives, however. He said the press "seems to demand perfection from the government but does not apply the same standard to the enemy or even sometimes to themselves," contrasting the coverage of the Abu Ghraib detainee abuse with that of mass graves in Iraq.


Note particularly what I've put in red. How much sense does it make to posit that the US administration and military, with the billions they have to back them up and with all of the decades of PR and advertising expertise accumulated in this commercial culture and with all of the sophisticated and pervasive media operations at their disposal, are being whupped by al qaida in the media realm???

What Rumsfeld is up to here is just a further attack on information sources which are not under his control, particularly an independent American press corps, a Congress that actually investigates, and any whistleblower who might spill the beans on illegality and lies.

The end product of these strategies is an electorate who can be (and will be) misinformed and manipulated to serve the perceived desires of a small group in control and an electorate who will not cause any problems.

The prime components of state control mechanisms in Orwell's 1984 are:
- no independent press at all, just a state-controlled system
- no mechanisms to limit the power of whoever is at the top...no balance from the courts, no balance from any other govt body (congress)
- arrest and detention, perhaps forever, without court oversight
- continual and thorough monitoring of the people to ensure they do not function in opposition to who is in control
- deceitful manipulation of records (think 'scrubbing' of websites)

That's how you get to 1984.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 8,476 • Replies: 158
No top replies

 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 05:33 am
Re: Information Control or how to get to Orwellian governanc
blatham wrote:

That's how you get to 1984.


The reasons for the new thread are certainly different :wink:
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 07:31 pm
GEORGE SOROS in his 1995 book, page 145, [i]Soros on Soros[/i], wrote:
I do not accept the rules imposed by others. If I did, I would not be alive today. I am a law-abiding citizen, but I recognize that there are regimes that need to be opposed rather than accepted. And in periods of regime change, the normal rules don't apply. One needs to adjust one's behavior to the changing circumstances.


Bruck, in The World According to Soros, page 58, wrote:
Tividar [George Soros's father] saved his family by splitting them up, providing them with forged papers and false identities as Christians, and bribing Gentile families to take them in. George Soros took the name Sandor Kiss, and posed as the godson of a man named Baumbach, an official of Hungary's fascist regime. Baumbach was assigned to deliver deportation notices to Jews and confiscate Jewish property. [Baumbach] brought young Soros with him on his rounds.


Michael Kaufman in his biography of George Soros, page 293, [i]Soros [/i], wrote:
My goal is to become the conscience of the world


GEORGE SOROS in his 2000 book, page 337, [i]Open Society[/i], wrote:
Usually it takes a crisis to prompt a meaningful change in direction.


GEORGE SOROS in the Washington Post, page A03 of November 11, 2003, wrote:
Ousting Bush from the White House is the central focus of my life. It's a matter of life and death.


GEORGE SOROS in the 2003 edition of his book, page 15, [i]The Alchemy of Finance[/i], wrote:
My greatest fear is that the Bush Doctrine will succeed--that Bush will crush the terrorists, tame the rogue states of the axis of evil, and usher in a golden age of American supremacy. American supremacy is flawed and bound to fail in the long run.

What I am afraid of is that the pursuit of American supremacy may be successful for a while because the United States in fact employs a dominant position in the world today.


GEORGE SOROS on June 10, 2004 to the Associated Press, wrote:

These are not normal times.


GEORGE SOROS in his 2004 book, page 159, [i]The Bubble of American Supremacy[/i], wrote:
The principles of the Declaration of Independence are not self-evident truths but arrangements necessitated by our inherently imperfect understanding.


Quote:
In April 2005 the Soros funded Campus Progress web site posted this headline: "An Invitation to Help Design the Constitution in 2020" (This was an invitation to a Yale law School Conference on "The Constitution of 2020: a progressive vision of what the Constitution ought to be.")


Sam Hananel in his associated Press article, December 10, 2004, wrote:
On December 9, 2004, Eli Pariser, who headed Soros's group Moveon PAC, boasted to his members, "Now the Democratic Party is our party. We bought it, we own it."


Quote:
If the Soros $influenced$ news media succeeds in persuading more than 50% of Americans to oppose Bush's plan, it will boost our enemy's effort and it will defeat America in Iraq regardless of whether Bush's modified strategy can work or not.[/I]
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 11:53 am
Who is really seeking the power of "Big Brother" in this century's version of NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR by George Orwell, call it TWENTY EIGHTY-FOUR? The answer is of course, the George Soros gang.

George Orwell in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR wrote:

NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR
Part II, Chapter IX
The two aims of the Party are to conquer the whole surface of the earth and to extinguish once and for all the possibility of independent thought. There are therefore two great problems which the Party is concerned to solve. One is how to discover, against his will, what another human being is thinking, and the other is how to kill several hundred million people in a few seconds without giving warning beforehand.

Part III, Chapter II
It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn ... It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.

Part III, Chapter III
The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power.

===============
The Soros gang claims, "Now [the Democratic Party is] our party! We bought it, we own it. The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States."
===============
The main obstacle to the Soros gang's "Big Brother" version of a stable and just world order is the United States.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 12:42 pm
If the Republicians had someone with half the power of Soros we would never hear the end of it. But Soros is on their side and they accept all they help his money can buy, and that is a lot of help.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 12:43 pm
Baldimo wrote:
If the Republicians had someone with half the power of Soros we would never hear the end of it. But Soros is on their side and they accept all they help his money can buy, and that is a lot of help.


Sheesh, you guys act like super-rich fellows don't give tons of money to help Republicans win. Who do you think funds all these 'institues' and 'foundations' which you rely on for policy pieces?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 12:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
If the Republicians had someone with half the power of Soros we would never hear the end of it. But Soros is on their side and they accept all they help his money can buy, and that is a lot of help.


Sheesh, you guys act like super-rich fellows don't give tons of money to help Republicans win. Who do you think funds all these 'institues' and 'foundations' which you rely on for policy pieces?

Cycloptichorn


There is no single wealthy contributer in American politics like Soros and you know it. He is single handedly trying to change the way American politics works. Once again if there were a Republician donor equal to Soros we would never hear the end of it. Soros is a danger to American politics and the dems are helping with the acceptence of his money.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 01:00 pm
Baldimo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
If the Republicians had someone with half the power of Soros we would never hear the end of it. But Soros is on their side and they accept all they help his money can buy, and that is a lot of help.


Sheesh, you guys act like super-rich fellows don't give tons of money to help Republicans win. Who do you think funds all these 'institues' and 'foundations' which you rely on for policy pieces?

Cycloptichorn


There is no single wealthy contributer in American politics like Soros and you know it. He is single handedly trying to change the way American politics works. Once again if there were a Republician donor equal to Soros we would never hear the end of it. Soros is a danger to American politics and the dems are helping with the acceptence of his money.


How incredibly droll Laughing You've made him out into some sort of boogeyman. Why is he a danger to American politics, exactly?

How about, say, Richard Mellon-Scaife?

By 1998 his foundations were listed among donors to over 100 Republican groups, to which he had disbursed some $340 million by 2002.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 01:18 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
If the Republicians had someone with half the power of Soros we would never hear the end of it. But Soros is on their side and they accept all they help his money can buy, and that is a lot of help.


Sheesh, you guys act like super-rich fellows don't give tons of money to help Republicans win. Who do you think funds all these 'institues' and 'foundations' which you rely on for policy pieces?

Cycloptichorn

Sure they do! Just like they give tons of money to help Republicans win.

But Soros is a special case in that he is a clear and present danger to the United States retaining the capability of securing the rights of all of us to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of Americans.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2007 01:58 pm
In what way?

I personally don't see how differing opinions on the way should be done, is pernicious to our way of life.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 12:21 pm
mark
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 12:56 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
In what way?

I personally don't see how differing opinions on the way should be done, is pernicious to our way of life.

Cycloptichorn


Oner person with a lot of money to control different groups is never a good idea. He is like puppet master and his strings is money.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 01:01 pm
Baldimo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
In what way?

I personally don't see how differing opinions on the way should be done, is pernicious to our way of life.

Cycloptichorn


Oner person with a lot of money to control different groups is never a good idea. He is like puppet master and his strings is money.


Sure, so where is your bitching about the Right-wingers who do the same thing? Murdoch? Mellon-Scaife? Non-existent.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 01:06 pm
So, to answer the original question, which served as the title of this discussion, I guess the answer is 'stay the course, as you are almost there.'
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 01:10 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
In what way?

I personally don't see how differing opinions on the way should be done, is pernicious to our way of life.

Cycloptichorn


Oner person with a lot of money to control different groups is never a good idea. He is like puppet master and his strings is money.


Sure, so where is your bitching about the Right-wingers who do the same thing? Murdoch? Mellon-Scaife? Non-existent.

Cycloptichorn


This isn't about the right wing, its about the left and Soros owning them. Nice to know you can change the subject and not answer any questions about your own party. Continue to deflect the issue, you sure your not a politican?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 01:13 pm
Baldimo

Bullshit.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 02:42 pm
Baldimo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
In what way?

I personally don't see how differing opinions on the way should be done, is pernicious to our way of life.

Cycloptichorn


Oner person with a lot of money to control different groups is never a good idea. He is like puppet master and his strings is money.


Sure, so where is your bitching about the Right-wingers who do the same thing? Murdoch? Mellon-Scaife? Non-existent.

Cycloptichorn


This isn't about the right wing, its about the left and Soros owning them. Nice to know you can change the subject and not answer any questions about your own party. Continue to deflect the issue, you sure your not a politican?


The topic is 'about' Orwellian governance, not Soros nor the left wing in general.

What questions am I supposed to answer, specifically?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 07:59 pm
Based on what he has written and has said and has financed, George Soros --"My goal is to become the conscience of the world"--is dangerous to humanity not just to America. He's an aspiring "Big Brother" with the will and the bucks to buy the people he wants to help him acrue the power he craves.
GEORGE SOROS in his 1995 book, page 145, [i]Soros on Soros[/i], wrote:
I do not accept the rules imposed by others. If I did, I would not be alive today. I am a law-abiding citizen, but I recognize that there are regimes that need to be opposed rather than accepted. And in periods of regime change, the normal rules don't apply. One needs to adjust one's behavior to the changing circumstances.


Bruck, in The World According to Soros, page 58, wrote:
Tividar [George Soros's father] saved his family by splitting them up, providing them with forged papers and false identities as Christians, and bribing Gentile families to take them in. George Soros took the name Sandor Kiss, and posed as the godson of a man named Baumbach, an official of Hungary's fascist regime. Baumbach was assigned to deliver deportation notices to Jews and confiscate Jewish property. [Baumbach] brought young Soros with him on his rounds.


Michael Kaufman in his biography of George Soros, page 293, [i]Soros [/i], wrote:
My goal is to become the conscience of the world


GEORGE SOROS in his 2000 book, page 337, [i]Open Society[/i], wrote:
Usually it takes a crisis to prompt a meaningful change in direction.


GEORGE SOROS in the Washington Post, page A03 of November 11, 2003, wrote:
Ousting Bush from the White House is the central focus of my life. It's a matter of life and death.


GEORGE SOROS in the 2003 edition of his book, page 15, [i]The Alchemy of Finance[/i], wrote:
My greatest fear is that the Bush Doctrine will succeed--that Bush will crush the terrorists, tame the rogue states of the axis of evil, and usher in a golden age of American supremacy. American supremacy is flawed and bound to fail in the long run.

What I am afraid of is that the pursuit of American supremacy may be successful for a while because the United States in fact employs a dominant position in the world today.


GEORGE SOROS on June 10, 2004 to the Associated Press, wrote:

These are not normal times.


GEORGE SOROS in his 2004 book, page 159, [i]The Bubble of American Supremacy[/i], wrote:
The principles of the Declaration of Independence are not self-evident truths but arrangements necessitated by our inherently imperfect understanding.


Quote:
In April 2005 the Soros funded Campus Progress web site posted this headline: "An Invitation to Help Design the Constitution in 2020" (This was an invitation to a Yale law School Conference on "The Constitution of 2020: a progressive vision of what the Constitution ought to be.")


Sam Hananel in his associated Press article, December 10, 2004, wrote:
On December 9, 2004, Eli Pariser, who headed Soros's group Moveon PAC, boasted to his members, "Now the Democratic Party is our party. We bought it, we own it."


Quote:
If the Soros $influenced$ news media succeeds in persuading more than 50% of Americans to oppose Bush's plan, it will boost our enemy's effort and it will defeat America in Iraq regardless of whether Bush's modified strategy can work or not.[/I]
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 09:30 pm
emphasis added
Axis of Soros
The men and motives behind the World Bank coup attempt.
WSJ
Wednesday, May 9, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

Mark Malloch Brown spoke Monday to a crowded auditorium at the World Bank's headquarters, warning that the bank's mission was "hugely at risk" as long as Paul Wolfowitz remained its president. Only hours earlier, news leaked that a special committee investigating Mr. Wolfowitz had accused him of violating conflict-of-interest rules. A coincidence? We doubt it.

Mr. Malloch Brown, remember, was until last year Kofi Annan's deputy at the United Nations. In that position, he distinguished himself by spinning away the $100 billion Oil for Food scandal as little more than a blip in the U.N.'s good work, and one that had little to do with Mr. Annan himself. Last week, Mr. Malloch Brown was named vice president of the Quantum Fund, the hedge fund run by his billionaire friend George Soros. A former World Bank official himself and ally of soon-to-be British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Mr. Malloch Brown would almost surely be a leading candidate to replace Mr. Wolfowitz should he step down. Not surprisingly, Gordon Brown cold-shouldered Mr. Wolfowitz at a recent meeting in Brussels.

The bank presidency would be a neat coup for Sir Mark, and not just because the post has heretofore gone to an American. He also stands for everything Mr. Wolfowitz opposes, beginning with the issue of corruption. Consider Mr. Malloch Brown's defense of the U.N.'s procurement practices.

"Not a penny was lost from the organization," he insisted last year, following an audit of the U.N.'s peacekeeping procurement by its Office of Internal Oversight Services. In fact, the office found that $7 million had been lost from overpayment; $50 million worth of contracts showed indications of bid rigging; $61 million had bypassed U.N. rules; $82 million had been lost to mismanagement; and $110 million had "insufficient" justification. That's $310 million out of a budget of $1.6 billion, and who knows what the auditors missed.

Mr. Malloch Brown also made curious use of English by insisting that Paul Volcker's investigation into Oil for Food had "fully exonerated" Mr. Annan. In fact, Mr. Volcker's report made an "adverse finding" against the then-Secretary-General. Among other details, the final report noted that Mr. Annan was "aware of [Saddam's] kickback scheme at least as early as February 2001," yet never reported it to the U.N. Security Council, much less the public, a clear breach of his fiduciary responsibilities as the U.N.'s chief administrative officer. Mr. Malloch Brown described the idea that Mr. Annan might resign as "inappropriate political assassination"--a standard he apparently doesn't apply to political enemies like Mr. Wolfowitz.

Mr. Malloch Brown never made any serious attempt to reform the U.N. beyond the cosmetic, while doing everything he could to block the real reforms proposed by Americans Christopher Burnham and former Ambassador John Bolton. He was, however, energetic when it came to lecturing Americans about what they owed the U.N., such as joining the "reformed" Human Rights Council (whose only achievement to date has been to castigate Israel), pursuing a "new multilateral national security," and otherwise empowering the likes of Mr. Malloch Brown, his multilateral mates and their tax-free salaries.

Views like these help explain why Mr. Malloch Brown is in such favor with Mr. Soros, who has publicly suggested the U.S. will need a "de-Nazification" program to erase the taint of the Bush Administration. So close are the two that Mr. Malloch Brown lives in a suburban New York home owned by Mr. Soros. Mr. Malloch Brown says he pays market rent, though reporting by the New York Sun's Benny Avni disputes that. In any case, it's safe to assume that Mr. Soros's widely published views are close to Mr. Malloch Brown's somewhat more guarded ones.

So it's not surprising that many on the World Bank staff would cheer Mr. Malloch Brown: He's perfect for an institutional culture in which "progressive" thinking goes hand-in-glove with a tolerance for corruption. That culture has been on vivid display in the Euro-coup against Mr. Wolfowitz. This weekend the committee investigating the claims dropped 600 pages in the president's lap and told him he had 48 hours to respond--in direct violation of World Bank staff rule 8.01, 4.09, which states that "the amount of time allowed a staff member to comment [on an investigative report] . . . will not be less than 5 business days." Following protests from Mr. Wolfowitz's lawyer, the committee gave him 72 hours.

This is the same kangaroo court that last month leaked its guilty verdict to the Washington Post before Mr. Wolfowitz even had a chance to plead his case. Our sources who have seen the committee's report tell us it is especially critical of Mr. Wolfowitz for daring to object publicly to the committee's methods and thereby bringing the bank's name into disrepute. The Europeans running this Red Queen proceeding prefer that they be able to smear with selective leaks without rebuttal.

Mr. Malloch Brown warned on Monday that, if Mr. Wolfowitz stayed as president, European countries might withhold funding from the next financing round for the bank's International Development Association. We hope he's right, though we know few European finance ministers who aren't eager to throw good money after bad. Still, it's a remarkable bit of chutzpah for the man who downplayed corruption at the U.N. to seek the ouster of the man who has fought to reduce corruption at the World Bank.

If the Bush Administration now abandons Mr. Wolfowitz as he faces a decision from the bank's board of governors, it will not only betray a friend but hand the biggest victory yet to its audacious enemies in the George Soros axis.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 11:15 am
Interesting that the article you posted doesn't posit an actual defense of Wolfie's actions - only attacks those who are attacking him.

CLASSIC Republican tactics! I really appreciate you posting this, Ican, as it shows the methodology which the Republican party has worked under for quite some time, in stark relief.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Information Control or how to get to Orwellian governance II
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/30/2025 at 07:11:45