Mame wrote:Well, having read some of that thread, it sounds like it's a good option for people who are at the point where help is welcome, at least initially. People reaching out to help others, etc. But as with all organizations, it's only as good as the people in it, so if one "sect" is power-mongering or controlling or bullying or whatever, that one will now be tainted. Let's face it, people screw everything up. That might have been more true in the group you associated with more than some others.
I understand your questioning, Chai, but for others, that idea is repugnant or scary. Perhaps they're still too shaky in their belief in themselves. They could be afraid of losing that fellowship. They might be afraid of spiralling back down into the alcoholism if they become the least bit independent. And really, does it matter to anyone what others do with their lives? Many other organized groups are just as cult-ish.
Your opinions in that Friends of Bill W thread have merit, but it was probably not the best place to voice them. It was a Friends Of thread, after all, and nobody was looking for a discussion/debate. I can see why they felt attacked; you don't hold back. I'd say next time, just pick your battleground a bit better.
That thread was an education for me in more ways than one.
oh, let me explain something...saying you are a "friend of bill wilson" does not necessarily mean you are some well versed person in the history, methods of AA.
AA is full of slogans and catch phrases.
Saying one is "A friend of Bill Wilson's" simply means they go to AA meetings.
For instance, 2 people could be complete stangers, and might be talking between themselves, or with a whole group of people. One person might say something that makes the other think he/she is an alcoholic. That person might say to the other "Do you know Bill Wilson" or "Do you know Bill W." or "Are you a friend of Bills" etc. Supposedly, no one else in the group of people have no idea who Bill Wilson is, so the other person is free to say "Yes, I am"
I always found this silly, because long long before drinking ever became a problem for me, or before I ever even drank at all, I knew who this person Bill Wilson was. Ergo, I found it kinda embarrassing, especially if a person didn't want anyone else to know about that part of their life.
I wasn't questioning in that thread, I was stating my opinion. And yes, I'd state the same thing again because I know that there are others who have thoughts similar to mine, but don't normally mention them because it's just not worth it. It's similar to disagreeing with a fundementalist, or any other cult. You're not going to get anywhere. My hope was to let someone else who might have been reading it that they're not alone, and it's ok to disagree.
I really do appreciate you bringing this up Mame, because this is something, if you want education, I can give you a birds eye view of. For instance, yes, there's AA meetings, and everyone is supposed to address only things that involves their alcoholism, but, you can make anything in your life about your alcoholism, you know what I mean?
Also, there's the part I mentioned about making friends, people you can rely on, and them on you. Life isn't all about this one hour you sit in a room. It comes to a point where you and friends you made there go out to movies and dinner and whatever, and don't talk anything about either how your life was while you were drinking, or how AA is effecting your life today. It someone did, it would be like someone in the group talking about nothing but Jesus while the rest of you wanted to discuss the Super Bowl.
People early on, and I mean in the first year, or maybe the first 5 years, there's no set time limit, might feel shaky, and scared....but there does come a time for most people that you know someone's saying..."If you don't come here, you going to get drunk" is just a bunch of hogwash.
Unfortunately, the people who say that can always point to someone and say "that guy didn't drink for 20 years, stopped coming to meetings...after 1 year, 15 years, whatever, they started drinking again" Unfortunately, they can't point to the other person who stopped going to meetings and lived a happy life and never drank again, because their not there.
Another thing, my fingers keep wanting to pause when I type the word "meeting". To someone with no experience with AA, this might sound like some official, getting things done, talking about issues, organized event.
Sometimes, it's a 74 year old woman who can share she planted daisies yesterday and didn't drink, then a 45 year old guy bemoaning the fact his 6 marriage is breaking up, and a third who by God just wants to declare how grateful he is today. Oh....and usually some other guy with no wife or girlfriend, who can be found at the meeting hall at any hour of the day or night, you can tell you one exactly what page of the Big Book any passage appears.
Honestly, I'm not bitter, I'm just one know to cry "The emperors naked"
I could honestly write here that I don't think I'd be alive today if I hadn't fallen into going to AA at a certain time in my life, because I was a mess, and needed that regime. However, it doesn't hold any kind of sacred status for me.
Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all...It just sort of doesn't live up to the expectations of the official idea of a meeting.
And Chai, well...I've always had a secret crush on you anyway.
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