Tug-of-war

Sorry Sakhi, I don't see the venting, the only thing I see from heatwave's post is hatred for indians and their culture. Good for her that she changed her nationality but sad that she cannot cut all her ties from the Indian culture because of her Indian husband and extended family.

I have a different take on this entire MIL DIL story.

One time, my husband got to witness a lady bitch about her MIL. Later he mentioned that to me and said " It must be so saddening for the husband of the lady that the two ladies he loves the most in his life do not get along well with each other." Those words hit me straight to the heart. I would have felt the same way if my husband bitched about my parents.

I am not a believer of living up to each and every traditional expectations of MIL. But I believe in treating them well with respect while disagreeing. I may be the thorn of her life, but how does it matter, I only get to see her may be 4 times in a year and just hear her voice every week.

If I wanted my husband to give my father a call on father's day or his birthday, I would ask him. May be by the next father's day husband would have gotten the message of my expectations. If not, I won't mind repeating it next year again.

Urban india is changing. I donot know many Indian ladies who live with their MILs. They meet probably twice in a year and talk once every week. These ladies lead a very modern life.. free to make their own decisions and free to live life their own way, don't live any of the expected traditional expectations and always supported by husbands. Even after this, few (mind you few, not all) bad mouth their MILs and Indian culture. So ironical...

0 Replies

Soz.. good you have an educated opinion about the Indian culture.

On a daily basis, I get to witness a lot of Indian-American interaction. These Americans are not well read about Indian culture and form opinions based upon the opinions projected/exhibited by Indians. Few ( again not all) of these Indians, project a very low opinion of themselves and Indians.. like sucking up to a white skin, not able to question a white opinion, trash a brown opinion in favour of a white opinion, do not exhibit any of the good qualities of Indian culture but are first to bring up the negatives.

Truly sad.

This post onwards, I will keep my mouth shut in this thread.

0 Replies

LoveMyFamily wrote:

the only thing I see from heatwave's post is hatred for indians and their culture.

I think you mistake frustration, even exasperation, for hatred.

Hatred is quite a different beast from yelling, "Oh god I cant believe how much they suck!" when you're confronted with a part of a place's culture that you really dont like.

Also, _Heatwave_ is only saying that Indian culture sucks specifically about this part: the place of women in traditional relations, the whole family thing (how the bride and her family are traditionally supposed to treat the groom's family, etc), the double standards.

Doesnt mean she might not dearly love other parts of Indian culture. But those are not what this thread is about.

Look, I'm Dutch. And I really think the Dutch suck, when it comes to how they treat foreigners and immigrants and how they're egoistic and spoiled fat people who nevertheless whine resentfully about how other people are treated better. And I will damn well say so when that is the topic.

But I dont hate the Dutch - I'm one myself, and the above doesnt mean there's not also lots that I do like about the Dutch. But when the subject is how they behave towards foreigners and stuff, Im not gonna be expounding on how they also have, you know, lovely painters and how its a great country to be gay in or whatever. I'll just be sounding off on how badly they behave towards foreigners.

0 Replies

Interesting.

First, to EhBeth: I'm sorry, I missed your post somehow earlier. Yes, you're right, this sort of thing is norm in India. We don't socialize very much these days within the Indian community or outside, actually. We just moved to this part of the country for B's school, and after a year of being here - B socializes with is school mates and I with my workmates. That's about it. I know what you mean though. I do think that as baby M grows, and our social circle widens - some of what you're mentioning will come about as well. Here's something ironicial: There's a pretty good chance that once B graduates next year, we might move back to the West coast. B has family there who are downright AWEsome. Closely related, and just wonderful, sane, rational people. B (and I) have tremendous love, respect, admiration for these people. When we're around these people (who have small children of their own), some of their awesomeness rubs off on B as well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we are able to return.

Noddy, thanks. I don't want to be (and even more) come across as the unaccommodating, inflexible bitch. The next few weekends might well set the tone for us going forward, as I buckle down and make those 5 minute phone calls.

Eva: To add to what Sozobe quoted after your post - yes, it's not unreasonable that traditionally raised men would expect their wives to fill traditional roles. However, you're so right about the shifting paradigm. Women *are* more emancipated, but traditions are still mired in the 10th century. I do think though that a couple things will change this scenario a few generations down the line - more women working outside the home, and the Westernization of Indian society thanks to mass media and the Internet. My SIL (all of 25 years) fits the above description - and I know that she will take this c**p only up to a certain point. She says already that she doesn't need to be dependent on her husband and that if comes to it, she'd be happy to return to India and go back to her happy life with her parents, friends, work, whatnot.

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

Look, I'm Dutch. And I really think the Dutch suck, when it comes to how they treat foreigners and immigrants and how they're egoistic and spoiled fat people who nevertheless whine resentfully about how other people are treated better.

Lots of American ex-pats, eh?

0 Replies

(((nimh))) and ossobuco: thank you for your kindness and the support. I cannot take any drastic steps, can't break my family (husband/daughter/I) as I've mentioned earlier. Doesn't mean that I don't play out various scenarios in my mind. But, I can't. B & I are actually well-matched in too many ways and he does make me happy. I *must* ensure that my daughter (and other children that we will have) have a solid home.

LoveMyFamily - what do I say to you. Please read nimh's awesome post in response to yours. And if you're interested in this thread, maybe you should take a few minutes and read it. I don't think you have, if all you've understood from it are my hatred of Indians and Indian culture.

Actually, don't. Don't read the thread. Don't come back - your idea of being silent on this thread is a good one. (This is a request, because I know this is an open forum.) You quite lost me (and turned me off) with your white/brown racist comments. Obviously, you have nothing to offer that will help my situation, and I have no tolerance for your tangents. Thanks for stopping by, and goodbye.

0 Replies

I hope the West Coast thing works out for you, _Heatwave_, that sounds like it could help a lot of things.

0 Replies

_Heatwave_ wrote:

Eva: To add to what Sozobe quoted after your post - yes, it's not unreasonable that traditionally raised men would expect their wives to fill traditional roles. However, you're so right about the shifting paradigm. Women *are* more emancipated, but traditions are still mired in the 10th century. I do think though that a couple things will change this scenario a few generations down the line - more women working outside the home, and the Westernization of Indian society thanks to mass media and the Internet. My SIL (all of 25 years) fits the above description - and I know that she will take this c**p only up to a certain point. She says already that she doesn't need to be dependent on her husband and that if comes to it, she'd be happy to return to India and go back to her happy life with her parents, friends, work, whatnot.

Thank you for helping me to understand. Culture shifts cause conflict in so many ways.

I see now. If it were just the couple, both the husband and the wife could compromise to find a workable solution. But with duties to extended families involved in the equation, it's not that easy. In addition to the problems this creates for the wife (which you have admirably explained), I would imagine that the husband's relationship with his parents is at stake, along with his expectations of his own role. Complicated all around, really.

I'm with sozobe. I hope things work out for a West Coast move for you. It sounds like that could be the best solution for everyone.

American marriage has not been free of culture shifts either. The past few decades have somewhat redefined "traditional" marriages here, and I've experienced my share of conflict with in-laws and societal expectations. It was very important to me (and other women I knew) to find a partner whose views on marriage roles were similar to ours. Those who didn't pay attention to this were doomed to unhappiness and/or divorce. I see the same thing happening in your sister-in-law's situation, Heatwave. Did she foresee this conflict before she married? What were her expectations?

0 Replies

Good luck, Heatwave,,,,

0 Replies

Yes, the West coast (or the 'Left' coast as my colleagues at work refer to it) would be pretty awesome. I loved living there, B & I both did. It's B's first cousin and her family though that completely swing it for us - they're such wonderful people. Indians, of course, raised here in the US though - but just such a perfect blend of both cultures that even MIL cannot point a finger at them. Their children are M's second cousins, just a little bit older, but because she was born there, consider her to be their third sibling. It's really cool. The cousin is probably the single most, I don't have the word - sane? evolved (maybe that's it)? beautiful (in & out) person I know. I tell her sometimes that you know how for some people WWJD (what would jesus do) is the guiding principle. For me it's WWDD (what would didi do). She's that awesome. B adores her - and openly encourages me to emulate her in any number of things - even down to raising M in certain ways.

Yeah, I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed that we can go back.

0 Replies

Eva wrote:

I see now. If it were just the couple, both the husband and the wife could compromise to find a workable solution. But with duties to extended families involved in the equation, it's not that easy. In addition to the problems this creates for the wife (which you have admirably explained), I would imagine that the husband's relationship with his parents is at stake, along with his expectations of his own role. Complicated all around, really.

Yes - you've really got it down. And that bit about husband's relationship with his own parents - that was what really made B hit the roof this last time. He said to me that because of me his relationship with his parents was getting screwed, and basically I had to fix it - come what may. That was also what made me extend an olive branch to MIL some weeks ago - I haven't made that update here - I'm still too pissed to write about it. Too too too pissed.

Moving on...

Eva wrote:

American marriage has not been free of culture shifts either. The past few decades have somewhat redefined "traditional" marriages here, and I've experienced my share of conflict with in-laws and societal expectations. It was very important to me (and other women I knew) to find a partner whose views on marriage roles were similar to ours. Those who didn't pay attention to this were doomed to unhappiness and/or divorce. I see the same thing happening in your sister-in-law's situation, Heatwave. Did she foresee this conflict before she married? What were her expectations?

No, she did not foresee any of this. Her expectations were the same as any girl's, I think, who comes from a traditional family (more traditional than mine, far far less than B's) and enters an arranged marriage. She (and her family) are completely taken aback at B's family behaviour. Her parents don't say anything, just acquiesce while inwardly marveling at B's parents' audacities and crassness (MIL: Give my brother's wife gold jewelry, and give me a sari & jewelry for this that and the other occasion). They don't because they don't want c**p to trickle down to their daughter. Not that anything can prevent that from happening. Her parents were with her, when B-bro & MIL informed her that she'd be seeing her family on 'occasions' during their India visit in the Fall. They were quite stunned by it. Their response: "These people just make things up! This isn't how things are supposed to work!"

I don't think anyone could've anticipated this kind of s**t happening. These people are just out there! SIL's mother actually said that if she'd met MIL a few more times before the wedding took place, she'd have called off the wedding.

0 Replies

Yikes.

Well, you can always write a short story about it, then it would at least be good for something...

Oy veh!

0 Replies

There is that, right? Immortalize MIL in words.

0 Replies

Heatwave--

Immortalize your version of your MIL.

0 Replies

Ha! There's a cathartic, passive-aggressive revenge!

0 Replies

I feel a little stupid posting in this thread right now - my 'problem' seems so trivial compared to a couple of the other threads (eoe's, boomerang's).

My update from the weekend is that I did make my call. Couldn't speak to the lady of the house, got too caught up with the lord, trying to photo-share online so they could have the newest M pics. Spent a good 45-mins on the phone with the lord. By the time I could ask for her, she'd gone to bed (supposedly - so I was told).

0 Replies

That sounds promising. FIL sounds much more bearable than MIL, and if you're talking to him you're still talking to B's family...

0 Replies

Well, you tried. All you can do is try again next weekend.

0 Replies

Heatwave--

Do you think that there is a possibility that she wants to avoid you? Wouldn't that be convenient all around.

0 Replies

FreeDuck, I did try. And will keep on.

Sozobe, yep, PIL is indeed more bearable than MIL, actually can be a lot of fun to even just hang out with.

Noddy, if only things would work out that simply. But, no. Because that would not be resolution.

MIL followed up on the evening that I talked to PIL with a phone call to B. Obviously after an argument with PIL, who for once must've tried to yell some sense into her head. All she said to him (after not talking to him for a month), was that she was sorry for everything that had happened; that she finally understood that she had 'married him off'; for saying things about his wife's (my) family; and that she was sure he would forgive her for not talking to him or me or our daughter. End of conversation. B's response: okay. He said to me, as he recounted this, that he was ticked off by her comments and that 'okay' was all he felt like saying to her.

So, no. It would not be convenient at all. What would be nice would be a congenial, mutually-respectful, relationship. That won't happen anytime soon. If MIL continues in this manner, it will cause more and more strain all around, more bad blood. Therefore, I shall keep up the weekend-ly phone calls - hopefully, a thaw will eventually happen.

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know