Tug-of-war

That just doesn't seem right to me, but I understand it's your situation and you have a better understanding of it.

Yes, it goes against the grain for me. I'm more for amputating a gangrenous arm (witness former husband). But apparently that just shows my severe lack of family values.

I had an interesting, illuminating conversation a few days ago with my sister and sister-in-law (my brother's wife), both of whom are in India. Basically, they both told me to roll over for the sake of my marriage. And they did both also tell me that I was a little far removed from the Indian context of marriages/families, and that my husband apparently wasn't. So, the message was, basically, that to preserve peace & happiness my family, I'd have to do what apparently MOST Indian DIL's do - suck it up, and be a dutiful, caring, yes-sir-no-sir-three-bags-full-sir Indian DIL.

My sister gave me an interesting incentive. She said - think how much your husband will respect you, because he'll know you're being a good DIL *despite* feeling the way you feel.

My sil said, you're feeling bitter and resentful right now that your husband isn't your best friend as you had imagined him to be. She said - you'll get over it, the way I did. I reflected on the truth in that statement, and saw how much resentment I harbor toward B for that exact reason.

Again - at the risk of inviting LoveMyFamily's wrath - Indians suck. They have the worst double standards ever.

Wow.

I see the benefits of such arrangements -- I think that overall American society can be too cold, uncaring. Parents in nursing homes who never see their children, etc. But what you describe seems intolerable to me. The choice between putting up with an odious mother-in-law or losing your husband...?!

Wow.

Yeah - Indian society is at the other end of the spectrum, sort of. Most old parents live with their sons, and the DIL's take care of them. Of course, the more affluent you are - the more care you can hire. But, for the most part, it's the DIL's lot to provide care/attention/what not.

And yes, the choice is definitely between putting up with the odiosity (my word) of MIL and husband. While it may not necessarily come down to divorce/separation, it definitely affects the home atmosphere, the tone of your marriage. It's been the first time that B & I have gone without even talking normally for a week, leave alone show affection, etc.

Heatwave--

In one of her drunken rages, my first mother-in-law screamed that she had allowed her mother to do this&that and thus&so and therefore she was entitled to do whatever she wanted with her grandchildren.

Would you consider that your m-i-l figures she's paid her dues on the Indian Family Status Ladder and it is now her turn to be the domineering bully?

Heatwave, I can't imagine living like that, but perhaps that's just because it's not my cultural upbringing.

If I've learned anything in life it's that there is only One life. One existence. No do-overs. Does it matter more to you that you live the way others want you to, or as your heart cries out? A hundred years from now, will it matter to MIL? Husband? Daughter? What difference will your life make in the end based on which "voice" you listen to about how you should live?

Just some things to ponder.

Noddy - urgh! That's such a familiar statement - your former MIL's. Yes, you're absolutely right - 'my turn to get my dues' definitely plays a big role here.

Squinney, more than anything else, I want my daughter to have a happy home, two loving parents - loving not just towards her, but towards each other as well. I did not grow up in such home, and I do not want my daughter to grow in similar acrimony-filled one. If it takes sucking up, I'll do it. I'll have to do it. To a certain extent, of course, but definitely far & beyond my comfort level. But that's the bottomline for me - my daughter's happiness. [I say this, and I was the teenager that told my mom - leave my philandering father and live your own life, be happy for yourself - because you have get just one life too.] I just want M to have a happy, normal, secure childhood.

Heatwave, I've been reading along since the beginning of your thread.

It's so sad and familiar-sounding. Not about my own life experience, but my colleagues and former classmates from the sub-continent.

Do you and your husband socialize within the Indian community?

I've noticed that the couples who socialize primarily outside of the Indian community (sometimes difficult if one of you is in academe), find it 'easier' (not easy) to make the transition away from the traditions family is trying to hold them to.

~~~~

Of course it's not specific to India or the sub-continent. I see the same thing with my colleagues and neighbours who are of Italian descent - oldest son and his family MUST take care of the parents.

Don't worry.. I won't debate you. You asked me not to and I know to respect people's desires.

Your saying "Indian's suck" will neither change anything in your screwed up family drama nor will it help your situation.

I was only wondering about the "biased" opinion people of other cultures are forming from your post about Indian culture. Seems like you have only lived the worst and facing only the worst extremes of Indian culture. Again, I am not debating just wondering...

Just wondering... what people reading this thread will conclude about Indian culture?

Speaking for myself, I have been an avid reader of modern Indian fiction for about 15 years (not sure how many I've read total but I have about 50 of them in my bookcase over there), have taken college courses on Indian history, and have many close friends who are Indian, including at least two standing invitations to visit India.

So, _Heatwave_'s story doesn't affect my views of Indian culture much, one way or the other.

Heatwave--

Life isn't fair. You've been gifted with an mother-in-law who was treated unfairly and who intends to perpetuate the unfairness.

You've got to break this cycle--while preserving your sanity and your marriage.

For starters, vent here all you like, but for the next week do not mention your m-i-l to your husband. If he brings up the subject, find out exactly what he would like you to do.

Write a letter once a week? Write an e mail every day? The demand that you "be nicer" is very vague, impossibly vague.

Hold your dominion.

Thought as much, Soz, and I guess that is true for a quite a few people here..

When Heatwave says "Indians suck" or "have the worst double standards" ...I realize that she is venting and doesnt mean it "literally"...

But, I think her problem is quite typical of Indian families...I think the Indian custom of looking after parents when they are old (and not let them stay in an old-age home) is a really good thing. BUT the problem I see is *most of the time* it applies mostly to the husband's parents....In most cases, the wife's parents dont get this treatment from their daughter because the wife "leaves her family to enter her husband's" according to indian tradition.

And bcause as parents you get looked after by your sons and not by your daughters, people hanker for boy babies..... That, I think is real sad.

Thanks, Sozobe & Sakhi, for responding to LMF, and for understanding that I'm venting.

Sakhi, great post, simple and lucid. It really burns me up, the way Indian traditions are so skewed towards men. Women are basically unpaid labor. I guess, though, that mothers of sons have a ton of power. Whatever. I'm Glad I don't have to live there and deal with it - because it would be one hundred times worse, and I'd probably live out my life as a single person.

Noddy, I often say that I've learned a lot from my mother. My SIL in India is closer to my mother (her MIL) than her own mother. My jerk brother once cheated on her and she says the single person who could really comfort her was my mother/her MIL. My SIL and my mum are so close that they have more 'short-cuts' in their communications than my mum & I have (if you know what I mean). Sometimes it's like they talk without words, and anticipate each other's .... thoughts, needs, etc. From *my* MIL, I've learned what *not* to do. You may be assured that I will actively observe and modify my behaviour so as to not be anything like her. The cycle *will* break.

I did what you said - didn't mention MIL to B all week. On Friday he asked if I'd called his folks, and I said I hadn't, but that I would over the weekend. He reminded me that it was Father's Day Sunday and that I should wish his dad. (There was no mention of him wishing my dad, but I didn't make a big deal out of it because my family doesn't mark the occasion. It's a new to India, this custom, and we just don't follow it.) Anyway, I said I'd call PIL Sunday and wish him. I did. Nice conversation. Had him talk/hear M as well. All very pleasant. At the end of the conversation, I asked him where MIL was, and was informed that she was at a party with her friends. PIL diplomatically told me that he'd let her know that I'd called, and that I'd wanted to talk to her. End of story. I'll make five minute phone calls to India every weekend. No more.

MY SIL, who has yet to complete a year of marriage, is actually married to the real Mama's-boy. (Believe it or not, I actually thank my stars that I married the sane brother, who is not *as* tied to the apron-strings!)

Anyway. She and I had a long conversation yesterday. She had family visiting over the past several days, who just left. She saw an interesting new side of her still-new husband. He wanted her family to behave in a different manner while they were in *his* house, complained about the number of miles SIL put on the car taking her family around. Was an all-around jerk. On the face of it, he was nice to her family. But behind the scenes, he made her miserable and completely trashed her happiness at seeing her family. Once, after being lectured on how he thought her family should behave and what traditions (hate that word) she was not following - SIL told B-bro that since he had so many problems maybe they should just go thier separate ways. That had him backpeddling rapidly, and he's been nicer to her since then.

They (SIL & B-bro) are planning a trip to India in the fall. Already, she's been told by MIL & B-bro that she will be spending all her time with her *now* family - because that's how it's done. And the sooner she realizes it the better it will be for her and her marriage. That she will see her family on 'occasions' like her sister's birthday and her parents anniversary.

SIL used to say to me that despite it all, she loved her husband and that she was happy with him. She said yesterday that she is now 'okay' with her husband. Not happy, not sad. Just okay. She sounded resigned, accepting, hopeless. And somewhere, there was an undercurrent of quiet strength. That if things didn't work out, she would not sit around to mope and be walked over.

Heatwave--



Accommodating your husband's desires with your own limits can be very liberating.

Hold your dominion.

Reading along with interest...

One question.

Having been raised as a typical American, these customs are completely unfamiliar and unacceptable to me. I wonder, though, about women who ARE raised with such customs. Wouldn't such women expect to fill traditional roles? Wouldn't it be reasonable for an Indian man to expect such things from his wife if he knew she was raised traditionally? Or has the paradigm shifted for young Indian women (and not the men)?

(Trying to understand the culture clash here.)

Eva, I think she kind of answered that here:

Yikes.

Yikes yikes yikes.

No advice here. None, I'm afraid. What I would do in your situation is very probably definitely not the right thing to do, if you get my drift

Just.. support. And wishing you well. And strength, lots of strength.

I dont know any Indians IRL (well, Ive met Gautam.. ;-)), and havent read anything like as much as you.

But from what I did read, _Heatwave_'s story comes as no surprise..

Coupla months ago I was reading Londonstani by Gautam Malkani (good book, except for the end), and there was lots exactly like this, exactly what _Heatwave_'s telling. And because its about second-generation immigrant teenagers growing up, there's the same incredulous exasperation with it.

But yeah, thats literature. When its something you know (even if just on a board), its .. different.

Take care, {{Heatwave}}!

I said as much, like nimh, earlier in my 'no advice'.



Choices I might make, and have, have hugely more import for you.

Or I think they do.

I'm supportive of you on your journey, heatwave.