Rosie O'Donnell, fire does melt steel

Does the governmental reasons for the Iraq war ring a bell. Perhaps all the lies Bush and Cheney put forth for going to war might have something to do with not trusting our government.

Yes rabel we know you do not trust the current Administration.

Does this distrust equate to believing that it engineered 9/11?

If it doesn't, your post is superfluous at best.

If it does, then you join blueflame in his unique and rare cadre of belivers.

Finn, "unique and rare cadre of belivers." That is denial and a half. I'm one of over 70 million Americans calling for new investigations. Hardly unique or rare. But you can spin and pretend to your hearts content.

I think that youre inflating the numbers quite a bit there BF. I cant believe that there are 70MM "air heads" out there who deny their own eyes and the forensic data at hand.
Your own tap dance around the Meridian Center forensic analogy is good enough to show me that you are not only NOT OBJECTIVE, but that youve got so much time invested in the conspiracy theory that you cant even see truth when it stands before you

.Too bad that this discussion has to be one of competing worldviews.

Well, farmerman, you can always take the internet polls (where people can vote several times without registering or anything), look at the results and then calculate the nationwide numbers.....

ahhh yes, the internet. Theres some robust statistics.

This is precisely why i almost never buy conspiracy theories. Oh, i believe in criminal conspiracy--it usually is less than completely successful, and usually ends with some or all of the conspirators in court. But it does work, and usually because there is so little time between the thought and the deed.

But the objections raised here against vast government conspiracy are not only cogent and to the point, they take into account the inescapable facts of human nature. Whether on considers mere criminal conspiracy or allegations of deeply-laid government conspiracies, the most important fact is that the people concerned are venal. They set out to lie, cheat and steal, and sometimes to murder. That means they are people who cannot be trusted. They cannot trust one another (at least not for very long) and they cannot be trusted to keep their mouths shut. To believe, for example, that FDR knew in advance that the Japanese would launch an air strike against Hawaii, and then conspired with other to keep this from the commanders on the scene (never mind the War Warning message sent to Hawaii and all Pacific commands in November, 1941), and that all solid, irrefutable evidence of this has been kept secret for more than sixty years doesn't just stretch credulity, it insults intelligence.

Same story here.

farmerman, you see what you want to see. The Zogby poll saying 70 million Americans want new investigations is posted several times on this thread. Zogby is widely respected. Zogby also says an international investigation of 911 is acceptable to these Americans which I think is shocking.

Norman Mineta Confirms That Dick Cheney Ordered Stand Down on 9/11
Former Transportation Secretary Disputes 9/11 Commission Report Timetable for Dick Cheney and Reveals Lynn Cheney Was Also in PEOC Bunker Before Attack

Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta answered questions from members of 9/11 Truth Seattle.org about his testimony before the 9/11 Commission report.

Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta definitively contradicted.

Norman Mineta revealed that Lynn Cheney was also in the PEOC bunker already at the time of his arrival, along with a number of other staff.

Mineta is on video testifying before the 9/11 Commission, though it was omitted in their final report. He told Lee Hamilton:

"During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president "do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!?

Mineta confirmed his statements with reporters, saying "When I overheard something about 'the orders still stand' and so, what I thought of was that they had already made the decision to shoot something down."

Mineta was still in the PEOG bunker when the plane was reported down in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

"I remember later on when I heard about the Shanksville plane going down, the Vice President was right across from me, and I said, 'Do you think that we shot it down ourselves?' He said, 'I don't know.' He said, 'Let's find out.' So he had someone check with the Pentagon. That was about maybe, let's say 10:30 or so, and we never heard back from the DoD until probably about 12:30. And they said, 'No, we didn't do it.'"

Norman Mineta's Testimony Before the 9/11 Commission-- which was NOT included in the final report and which DISPUTES the Commission's timetable for Vice President Dick Cheney on 9/11

The two hour time delay is suspicious given the Vice President's own account of the dedicated video communications available that morning, as he told it to Tim Russert of Meet the Press on September 16, 2001.

"We had access, secured communications with Air Force One, with the secretary of Defense over in the Pentagon. We had also the secure videoconference that ties together the White House, CIA, State, Justice, Defense--a very useful and valuable facility. We have the counterterrorism task force up on that net. And so I was in a position to be able to see all the stuff coming in, receive reports and then make decisions in terms of acting with it."

At a bare minimum, this confirmation by Norman Mineta is in gross contradiction to the 9/11 Commission Report and poses serious questions about the Vice President's role in ordering NORAD to stand down on 9/11.
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