How do you love someone?

Ah, but the rapture phase of falling in love passes, at least the high stages of it. Loving a person past that is the the next developmental stage, or, quandary..

Sure... but I think there always has to be some vulnerability to have a real connection. Without vulnerability, it's just two people who are in close proximity.

We've a fair number of people on a2k who have connected with (to become) mates while older. I suspect there is an element of vulnerability quieting that can happen.

I'm not sure what you're saying, osso... perhaps you're musing parallel to rather than in reaction to what I'm posting.

Of course people CAN fall in love when they get older. I don't doubt that for a second. I see littlek's point about how it can be harder, when one has been self-sufficient for a long time, though. And I don't think people should be puddles of need -- but I agree with Swimpy that there has to be some element of vulnerability for there to be a deep connection.

don't get so high and mighty miss "blows chunks through her reproductive orifice once a month"....

I followed you, Sozobe, and am not disagreeing - it was parallel, if I remember correctly.

But, sometimes when older people meet and fall in love, and I'm not saying 40 year olds... they can feel like coming home, less vulnerable than they were, even though, natch, there is real vulnerability in the mix as well.






(oh, damn, I put chili pepper in my eye again)

Ah, OK, thanks.

As a sort of a tangent, I do think there is some difference between people who have been in one or a series of relationships and then fall in love when they are older without that much time elapsing between the end of the last relationship and the beginning of the next, and people who have been single for a long time.

As in, it's not just age per se but habits, how used one is to being alone.

As in, I think it would probably be easier for a generic 70-year-old who had been married 3 times before and whose last marriage ended last year to fall in love, than for a generic 40-year-old whose last serious relationship was 10 years earlier.

People can be alone in long marriages. That is a vulnerable space, in another sense than what you are saying, Soz.

I'll admit if I ever lived with a mate again, marriage or otherwise, I'd be trouble, and so, I assume would he.

It would be meeting with territories, we'd have our own dens, or even houses. I have some near lifetime friends, married to each other somewhere around 40 years, who live in separate victorian houses on the same property purchase (they renovate old houses in tough areas and work out ways to sell to the previous renters). They have seeming dozens of grandchildren... and go on spiritual retreats together.. do love each other, far as I can tell... whatever the aggravations, but get peace apart...

but I also know several sets of newly connected much older than 40 people who are pleased as hell to live together, mostly.

Vulnerability varies.

Ah, I'm seriously doubting 40 is the endpoint of being able to fall in love and be vulnerable.

though as I say that, I'm not sure I'm right. Maybe it's 30. After all, once you've been out of your mind in love and have had it not work out, the defenses, or wisdom, whichever, build up.

And via a2k, I'm starting to learn this decrease starts at about thirteen.

Did anyone say that 40 is the endpoint?

I was single for a long time when I met my husband. I was 33, 34, when we decided to live together. His parents freaked...


Now I think of that long time as both formative - as in who are you - and short in the span of a life.

Not precisely, but I got the context that living independently can be cumulatively detrimental to sense of vulnerability, over more than a few years' time.

Well, it can.

But emotional vulnerability still weathers its way.

When I said surrender, I didn't really mean vulnerable. I meant more that you have to give yourself to the relationship. You and your partner as individuals are secondary to the coupledome, if that's a word. You put your relationship first. Some people do that very easily. For others it's much harder.

Ah, I see the distinction. That makes sense.

I meant in my post that I found it so unsurprising for men to respond in the way they did.

Kind of like that embarrassment of admiting a tender side in front of other men.

BTW, I don't believe I've ever said anything about chunks and my reproductive organs...I have done that for a long time now anyway.

Kicky, I see you as very capable of love, and very lovable, meaning I can easily imagine someone caring for you.

I think you're having a hard time with not being in your 20's anymore. I think you'd be more attractive to someone if you, well, grew up a little. Like in stability. I hope you don't take that as an insult, it's not meant that way. You've said so yourself.

And JL's mention of love of a person, personality, gets there...

The person with whom you're involved (and you) have to be good candidates for being a couple, I think. This means reasonably well-matched. Referring to temperaments, needs for space, and ability to give almost unconditionally. I say almost because I've yet to see two people who do this consistently. (I hear people who talk of or know people who do this...and it's mostly the older generation...over 65.)

I see an analogy with being in a committed relationship and watching a movie. You need the ability to suspend disbelief in order to thoroughly enjoy the watching of the movie. I feel the same is true with love (e.g. you need the ability to suspend cynicism ... to give up the cynicism about falling in love/being in love.) After all, you're IN a relationship because you need to feel/give love and have/give comfort...not just to have sex or be entertained for awhile. It's YOUR responsibility and your partner's to keep things from getting stale. Find ways to do this. Be creative...invite and accept your partner's creative ways to keep thing from getting stale.

Focus on the positive and find something every day that pleases or amazes you about the other person. Let them know what these things are. COMMUNICATE....don't just complain. It's a series of actions that eventually add up and turn into the right...upward direction. I try to find something funny to say or do or read and share these things I know that she'll be interested in.

I'm not very romantic so I compensate. I try to keep the outside world from robbing my passion. Lately, that's been pretty tough to do. Oh yes, even though I'm not a romantic, I try to find some way to surprise her and myself with a romantic gesture.

Lastly, I never give up. I've been married 2x and been in 3 serious relationship besides that. I never consider myself someone who has failed at love. I may have failed at some jobs, but never at love. Anytime you get or give love it's success - just my home-brew philosophy.

Here's a final thought: I know people who have trouble with their marriage relationships show no trouble at all being loving with their young family members or their children. Why is it that they can't apply that same tenderness to their lover/spouse?

Good luck..I hope this helped somehow

Interesting thread. I'm glad I asked the question. Thanks for all your answers. I wasn't necessarily talking about romantic love, though I'm sure the means to that end are probably very closely-related, if not equivalent. I'm talking about loving anyone. It could be a best friend, family members, etc.--I'm actually questioning whether I give enough of a damn anymore to love anyone at all.

Not giving a damn. That is how NOT to love. I have that down pat. So I guess the answer to the first question would be the opposite of that. To think about other people, and to sincerely care about their well-being.

But how the hell do you do that?

For a while now I have been closing myself off further and further from everyone in my life, including my family, and at this point, I am so self-sufficient, self-loathing, and self-involved, I wonder if I'll ever get back to being able to love people. How do you make yourself give a damn?

Even when I meet some new woman and I'm attracted to her, I don't have enough motivation to do anything about it. It all seems like such a big project that won't pay off in the end enough to make it worthwhile. I'm so lazy about this stuff, because I'm hooked on this boring lazy-ass lifestyle that I have worked so hard to attain. I have carefully cut myself off as much as possible from any chance of finding love. I tell myself I like to be alone, but I'm beginning to get to a place where I am alone almost all the time. I feel pretty isolated lately, and so I guess I was trying to sort that out in my own way.

That's why I asked. I know this post is kind of all over the place, and might not make much sense at all, but I felt like since I started the thread, I should at least make some contribution to trying to figure out my question for my own damn self. I don't think this post did that at all. Maybe I'll read some of yours again.

Anyway, thanks to you all.

Confused as always,

Kicky.

That might be wrong. Just giving a damn is not enough. Is it love if you just feel it and never show it? I think not. Loving someone is a pro-active kind of thing, isn't it? Yes, I believe it is.

Don't pay any attention to me. I'm just thinkin' n ****.