ok since you guys seem to know so well what i went through, what is your opinions on a 70 yr old athiest with no christian family, that becomes a christian. or a muslim who becomes a christian, to then be cut off from his family? what kind of "pressure" as you call, were these two men subjected to. and if your wondering, yes these are both true stories. The converted atheist is a man i have had the pleasure of befriending and the muslim is ergin kaner, now dean of Liberty Univ. Both were mature adults, able to make their own decisions with no pressure to become christian. and in kaners case, his father disowned him and never spoke to him again.
at the end, I will either learn the answer to all my spiritual questions or I will cease to exist. Meanhile I have enough trouble keeping myslef in line and being a decent human being (and that depends on who you talk to)than to worry with things I can't possibly figure out.
kate4christ03 wrote:ok since you guys seem to know so well what i went through, what is your opinions on a 70 yr old athiest with no christian family, that becomes a christian. or a muslim who becomes a christian, to then be cut off from his family? what kind of "pressure" as you call, were these two men subjected to. and if your wondering, yes these are both true stories. The converted atheist is a man i have had the pleasure of befriending and the muslim is ergin kaner, now dean of Liberty Univ. Both were mature adults, able to make their own decisions with no pressure to become christian. and in kaners case, his father disowned him and never spoke to him again.
I would be interested in getting to know all the reasons they had for making the switch.
Kate, how did your parents feel about your being "saved"?
Quote:I would be interested in getting to know all the reasons they had for making the switch
well they both say basically what i've written. That God called them and they were convicted by the Holy Spirit. There are so many people out there that get saved at an older age, where they aren't pressured by family or friends. Your opinion on why people become christians is just an opinion.
Kate, how do you feel about the first council of Nicaea? Or the infamous gospel of Judas?
You can't deny there is a possibility that the bible isn't the exact word of god, and therefore not the ultimate authority.
The first council of Nicea voted against arianism overwhelmingly. Thanks to men like Athanacius, most today dont follow arianism. Many times in christian history, false teachings have abounded, but that doesn't take away from God's word or his Sovereignty. and i don't see how this shows the possibility that the bible isnt the word of God...and as for the gospel of judas, it contradicts the new testament and didn't come out til about the second century. There is nothing to substantiate that judas' gospel is the word of God.
i don't really see how this adds into our discussion on salvation.
what is your point please?
kate4christ03 wrote:Quote:I would be interested in getting to know all the reasons they had for making the switch
well they both say basically what i've written. That God called them and they were convicted by the Holy Spirit. There are so many people out there that get saved at an older age, where they aren't pressured by family or friends. Your opinion on why people become christians is just an opinion.
I wouldn't say that I have given an opinion as to why people become christians. I have made guesses about it. I have offered what I consider to be reasonable explanations. But, whatever... I won't debate that point with you. I have asked christians on this forum to share their reasons, but you almost never do. Claiming that you were called by God is not a reason (to me), as it does not make any sense to me or to a great many others with whom you are attempting to communicate. It is not my primary concern to merely prove you wrong. I really am interested in learning. But I don't know how to have a constructive dialogue with you if you won't respect logic.
kate4christ03 wrote:
i don't really see how this adds into our discussion on salvation.
what is your point please?
In context to you backing up your beliefs on the bible. It might be irrelevant to the original thread but I still think it is interesting that a lot of conservative christians follow the bible by the letter when you keep in mind that the content of the bible was decided democratically. Who knows, maybe arianism is the true word of god.
Democracy is hardly the word of god.
kate4christ03 wrote:ok since you guys seem to know so well what i went through, what is your opinions on a 70 yr old athiest with no christian family, that becomes a christian. or a muslim who becomes a christian, to then be cut off from his family? what kind of "pressure" as you call, were these two men subjected to. and if your wondering, yes these are both true stories. The converted atheist is a man i have had the pleasure of befriending and the muslim is ergin kaner, now dean of Liberty Univ. Both were mature adults, able to make their own decisions with no pressure to become christian. and in kaners case, his father disowned him and never spoke to him again.
My apologies, I don't meen to imply I have an understanding of your personal experiences.
As for the 70yr old atheist or the muslim converting to Christianity at the cost of their own family, and how I feel or think about these scanrio. I Feel that these people probably did what they felt was the right thing to do, that they were acting genuinely in their interests, and that they were simply trying to fill the part of them that wanted spirituality or different spirituality.
It's the same way IO feel about a theist of any type becoming and atheist or a Christian deacon such as my Grandfather leaving the church and becoming a Buddhist.
Quote:but you almost never do. Claiming that you were called by God is not a reason (to me), as it does not make any sense to me or to a great many others with whom you are attempting to communicate. It is not my primary concern to merely prove you wrong. I really am interested in learning. But I don't know how to have a constructive dialogue with you if you won't respect logic.
thats ridiculous echi. you have asked me once and i answered. and i went into more detail than " i was called by God". you may not like the answer and it may appear illogical to you, but religion does not always fall within the bounds of another's logic. I honestly told you what genuinely happened to me. and if it wasn't enough....I knew the story of Jesus. I knew that he died for me. I felt an overwhelming love for him and i got on my hands and knees and ask him in my heart.
Quote:but I still think it is interesting that a lot of conservative christians follow the bible by the letter when you keep in mind that the content of the bible was decided democratically. Who knows, maybe arianism is the true word of god.
the first council of nicea, if i'm correct, convened mainly for the purpose of discussing arianism. that of which, i might add, is contrary to the scriptures. that was the reason it was voted out. i think only about 2 or 3 people supported arianism.
kate4christ03 wrote:Quote:but you almost never do. Claiming that you were called by God is not a reason (to me), as it does not make any sense to me or to a great many others with whom you are attempting to communicate. It is not my primary concern to merely prove you wrong. I really am interested in learning. But I don't know how to have a constructive dialogue with you if you won't respect logic.
thats ridiculous echi. you have asked me once and i answered. and i went into more detail than " i was called by God". you may not like the answer and it may appear illogical to you, but religion does not always fall within the bounds of another's logic. I honestly told you what genuinely happened to me. and if it wasn't enough....I knew the story of Jesus. I knew that he died for me. I felt an overwhelming love for him and i got on my hands and knees and ask him in my heart.
Kate,
You have given no explanation beyond claims that you were called by God, guided by the Holy Spirit, or some other such statement. Where is the logic in that? All I ask is that you make an effort to communicate with those of us who are apparently lacking in the faith that somehow enables you to make sense of all this. BTW-- logic is logic; we don't get to just make it up.
Quote:I knew the story of Jesus. I knew that he died for me. I felt an overwhelming love for him and i got on my hands and knees and ask him in my heart.
there is not much more i can say. i knew what Christ had done for me. I had faith in him and i felt God calling me. I realized that without Jesus, i would be lost and so i made him my Savior. if you can't respect that as explaination enough, then i don't know what else to say. because that is how it happened.
kate4christ03 wrote:Quote:I knew the story of Jesus. I knew that he died for me. I felt an overwhelming love for him and i got on my hands and knees and ask him in my heart.
there is not much more i can say. i knew what Christ had done for me. I had faith in him and i felt God calling me. I realized that without Jesus, i would be lost and so i made him my Savior. if you can't respect that as explaination enough, then i don't know what else to say. because that is how it happened.
I respect that you are making an effort to help me understand. I hope you can respect that what may seem like an acceptable explanation to you is not necessarily acceptable to me. That's fine, of course. I don't expect to change your mind about anything. I am most interested in understanding what conditions you have for deciding what information you will accept as true. What made you decide that to accept the story of Jesus, as you were taught to understand it? How do you judge what is true and what is not?
i understand that you may not find my reasons for being a christian acceptable, and it's ok. But you have to realize, christianity is all about faith. Christ doesnt just visualize himself in front of a person anymore, as he did with saul. I don't have scientific proof of God's existence. For me, i knew the story of Christ and i had faith he was real. It was a child's faith, yes. But the thing is echi, I'm an adult now, and if i weren't genuinely a born again christian, and if i didnt know for sure that Christ and God exist, i would have left christianity.
So echi, for me it was all about faith. And once i started to just believe and asked Jesus into my heart, he has never left.
kate4christ03 wrote:...But you have to realize, christianity is all about faith...
But life is not about faith... it goes for better or for worse with or without.
and that is why I for one don't see a need in having christianity.
kate,
It seems like you are saying the reason you believe is because you have faith. Is that right, or am I lost?
kate4christ03 wrote: But you have to realize, christianity is all about faith. [Christ doesnt just visualize himself in front of a person anymore, as he did with saul.
Kate, what puzzles me when I see statements such as the above is why a person would put so much stock in words of questionable accuracy (lack of original manuscripts) from 2000 plus years ago and yet totally disregard those of more modern times such as
Joseph Smith or
Jim Jones or
David Koresh or
Sun Myung Moon (Jesus Christ Appears) or even for any of the thousands alive today that claim to have conversions with God, Jesus, angels, or some other celestial being.
Quote:But life is not about faith... it goes for better or for worse with or without.
Tko sorry but for me, it is about faith. Faith encompasses pretty much every aspect of my life. Whether it's faith in my Creator or faith in other human beings.
Quote:It seems like you are saying the reason you believe is because you have faith. Is that right, or am I lost?
echi that is how it started yes.
