Confidence in your beliefs.

Arella Mae wrote:

echi wrote:
If you try, you can find answers to just about any given situation anywhere you look. The Bible just doesn't appeal to me very much, so I tend to look elsewhere.

I prefer to go to the top man, so to speak. He made the rules so why wouldn't one look to Him for the answers? Why would one want to look to anyone or anything less than the ultimate authority?

If I thought the Bible was the ultimate authority on everything I don't imagine I would want to read anything else. This is not my belief, however, and you know this is not my belief... so why would you ask me such a silly question?
Also, if the Bible is the ultimate authority on everything, what are you doing on A2K so much? Wouldn't you be better off studying the Bible?

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cello..."to be saved" in reference to Christian doctorine, means to be saved from hell. When one gets "saved" they become a child of God and receive everlasting life in heaven.

echi.....since i was a kid when i got saved , most of the bible was hard to comprehend. I just knew the basics of who Jesus was and what he did for me. And what was needed to have Jesus. ..I knew it was God calling me because of what i was taught by my parents and what i did know of the bible...But, i can say that as i got older, being born again helped me understand the bible better, because i have the Holy SPirit in me who instructs me. If I werent saved, alot of the bible wouldnt make sense.
I know this may aggravate you, but 1corinthians 2:14 says it best when it stated that the natural man cant understand the spiritual things. This verse is just showing that the bible is hard to understand(in the fullest extent that is was given) by a person who doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

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echi wrote:

If I thought the Bible was the ultimate authority on everything I don't imagine I would want to read anything else. This is not my belief, however, and you know this is not my belief... so why would you ask me such a silly question?
Also, if the Bible is the ultimate authority on everything, what are you doing on A2K so much? Wouldn't you be better off studying the Bible?

First, where did I mention YOU? I said, "if ONE", not "if YOU". (Caps for emphasis only)

Second, that's a good one Echi! Laughing

You (and yes, I mean you this time) are one that thinks I should be more open minded, read other books, etc.? But then you ask if I'd be better off reading the Bible? Shocked

ROFL! That was a good one Echi!

By the way Happy Easter to everyone!

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"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

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cello wrote:

real life wrote:
cello wrote:
Sorry to interrupt, but I read this expression so often I decided to ask the question. What means "to be saved"?

It means to be saved from one's sins, i.e. to be forgiven of one's sins by God.

Thanks, real life. But this saving seems to happens around 8 or 9 years old, doesn't it?

Not necessarily.

I have known people who were saved as young children, as young adults, or senior citizens and at nearly any age in between.

cello wrote:

What happens to save you?

You sincerely ask God to forgive your sins, and He will.

Salvation is not only a one time event however, it is also a lifetime of living with God.

It is like finding the one that you fall in love with and marry. You walk each day with them and build a relationship by getting to know each other, avoiding doing or saying things that will trash the relationship and finding ways to please one another.

In this process, God continually saves you from sin, i.e. helping you to avoid sinning, since sin wrecks your relationship to God, as well as your relationships with others.

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echi wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
echi wrote:
If you try, you can find answers to just about any given situation anywhere you look. The Bible just doesn't appeal to me very much, so I tend to look elsewhere.

I prefer to go to the top man, so to speak. He made the rules so why wouldn't one look to Him for the answers? Why would one want to look to anyone or anything less than the ultimate authority?
If I thought the Bible was the ultimate authority on everything I don't imagine I would want to read anything else. This is not my belief, however, and you know this is not my belief... so why would you ask me such a silly question?
Also, if the Bible is the ultimate authority on everything, what are you doing on A2K so much? Wouldn't you be better off studying the Bible?

Quote:

First, where did I mention YOU? I said, "if ONE", not "if YOU". (Caps for emphasis only)

Fair enough, Arella. But you posted a direct response to MY statement, not to ONE's statement.

Quote:

Second, that's a good one Echi! You (and yes, I mean you this time) are one that thinks I should be more open minded, read other books, etc.? But then you ask if I'd be better off reading the Bible? ROFL! That was a good one Echi!

By the way Happy Easter to everyone!

Oh, come on now, Arella. You know exactly what I meant. It's a valid question, isn't it? I'm glad you hang around A2K... We have a lot of fun together. But IF the Bible is what you claim to believe it is then why do you not devote more time reading it? Could it be that you don't really believe as you proclaim?

Happy Zombie Day! (sorry)

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kate4christ03 wrote:

echi.....since i was a kid when i got saved , most of the bible was hard to comprehend. I just knew the basics of who Jesus was and what he did for me. And what was needed to have Jesus. ..I knew it was God calling me because of what i was taught by my parents and what i did know of the bible...But, i can say that as i got older, being born again helped me understand the bible better, because i have the Holy SPirit in me who instructs me. If I werent saved, alot of the bible wouldnt make sense.
I know this may aggravate you, but 1corinthians 2:14 says it best when it stated that the natural man cant understand the spiritual things. This verse is just showing that the bible is hard to understand(in the fullest extent that is was given) by a person who doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

Thanks, kate.
The problem I'm having with your explanation is that you're just going by what other people tell you about God, Jesus, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit. It's fine to get information from others, of course, but at some point you still have to do a gut check... you have to weigh it for yourself and see if it makes sense. Does the Holy Spirit guide you, or do you simply use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to allow yourself to accept church dogma?
BTW, what difference is there, in your mind, between the Holy Spirit and one's conscience?

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echi......i was raised in a christian household, but when i made Jesus my savior, i wasn't going on what others told me to do. My parents never pressured me. When i got saved, it was because i felt God calling me and I chose to be his. And as i've grown in age and maturity, I can see, through my own studies that what they taught me is right. Have there been times i've questioned things i've read in the bible? Yes, and i have honestly gone to God with those questions.

Quote:

Does the Holy Spirit guide you, or do you simply use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to allow yourself to accept church dogma?

"church dogma" ? I don't worship a church. I don't use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to believe what a church tells me. I worship God, and do that by following his word and being guided by his Spirit.
The Holy Spirit guides me in all i do. He supercedes my conscience. But i guess a way i can explain is that a conscience would be just a moral compass . while the Holy Spirit is our spiritual, and moral compass and our comforter. BTW sorry for taking so long to respond, i was at the beach Very Happy

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echi wrote:

Oh, come on now, Arella. You know exactly what I meant. It's a valid question, isn't it? I'm glad you hang around A2K... We have a lot of fun together. But IF the Bible is what you claim to believe it is then why do you not devote more time reading it? Could it be that you don't really believe as you proclaim?

Echi, this is a fruitless conversation, don't you think? You have no clue as to how much time I devote to reading my Bible, do you? Are you assuming I spend X amont of time and it's not enough? So, what say we just drop this little tit for tat thing? You want to discuss this, great, you want to do this back and forth getting in licks, I'll bow out.

Make no mistake, I believe Echi. I believe in God with all my heart, soul, and mind. No one has to like it, no one has to agree with it.

Quote:

Happy Zombie Day! (sorry)

I'm having a very hard time believing you are sorry for that comment.

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I was saved when I was 10 years old. I didn't feel as though I was pressured to do something I didn't want too, I had the tingling in my heart, I was searching for answers, and I found them in god.........when I was 10.

I spoke in tongues, I went on mission trips out of the country, the furthest being in Sao Paulo, Brazil. I was a messenger of Christ. I believed whole-heartedly, and I knew I had the holy spirit working through me.

When I was 19 I moved away from all of my Christian friends, moved to a new city, began thinking on my own. It took about 3 years of self-awareness and study/thought/prayer to realize that Christianity is a load of hogwash. I then realized that while I didn't feel DIRECT pressure to do any of the church stuff, my whole life up until that point was geared towards the Church, and how much more pressure could there be when you've spent your entire life devoted to a god, or talking/knowing people who are devoted to that god. If I didn't become saved when I was 10, I stood to lose all of my friends and become an outcast to my parents (not really, but I'm sure I thought so when I was 10). How much MORE pressure could there have been to become a Christian.

I've spent the last 5 years (I'm 27) reading, visiting, and learning about the world and seeing first hand all the harm that religions do to a society. The Christian god is one hell of a bastard.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

echi......i was raised in a christian household, but when i made Jesus my savior, i wasn't going on what others told me to do.

Of course you were. You did not come up with the idea of needing to be saved on your own.

Quote:

My parents never pressured me. When i got saved, it was because i felt God calling me and I chose to be his. And as i've grown in age and maturity, I can see, through my own studies that what they taught me is right. Have there been times i've questioned things i've read in the bible? Yes, and i have honestly gone to God with those questions.

Do you suppose you might feel any sense of guilt if you should decide to look elsewhere for the truth?... somewhere else besides where your parents/family has pre-approved? This may be the actual nature of your Holy Guidance.

kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
Does the Holy Spirit guide you, or do you simply use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to allow yourself to accept church dogma?

"church dogma" ? I don't worship a church. I don't use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to believe what a church tells me. I worship God, and do that by following his word and being guided by his Spirit.
The Holy Spirit guides me in all i do. He supercedes my conscience. But i guess a way i can explain is that a conscience would be just a moral compass . while the Holy Spirit is our spiritual, and moral compass and our comforter. BTW sorry for taking so long to respond, i was at the beach

The Bible is a product of religious ideology. Your interpretation of the Holy Spirit is dogma. It is not a conclusion that you have reached on your own through a process of critical thinking. You received it on church authority and resist challenging its validity out of fear of reprimand. (methinks)

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Echi,

My only question to you is how can you sit there and TELL Kate what is and what isn't? You are basing everything on what YOU have read, heard, learned, experienced, etc., and she is doing the same thing. Yet, she is not telling you what YOU do or have done? I am curious as to why you can't accept that and let it go at that? Not sure I am saying this right but hope I am. If you need clarification, please just ask.

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yeah thanks echi for telling me what i believe. i don't know how i have gotten by so long without you. Very Happy

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kate4christ03 wrote:

yeah thanks echi for telling me what i believe. i don't know how i have gotten by so long without you.

I don't know either.

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haha

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kate4christ03 wrote:

haha

I didn't mean that to be funny. I really don't know how you've survived this long.

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Quote:

I didn't mean that to be funny

i know. It was your asinine opinion that i found humorous.

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everyone' opinion is asinine except, of course, my own. I believe, I do, I believe it's true, I believe exactly what they tell me to.

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Arella Mae wrote:

Echi,

My only question to you is how can you sit there and TELL Kate what is and what isn't? You are basing everything on what YOU have read, heard, learned, experienced, etc., and she is doing the same thing. Yet, she is not telling you what YOU do or have done? I am curious as to why you can't accept that and let it go at that? Not sure I am saying this right but hope I am. If you need clarification, please just ask.

Kate's belief that she is in need of a "savior" is something that she was taught.

She says her decision to get "saved" was because she "felt God calling" her. I am simply offering an alternative and more realistic explanation. I don't mean to offend.

She says that her parents never pressured her to get "saved". How can this be? Are they not, themselves, Christians? I assume what she means is that they were not constantly bothering her about it-- Maybe they never mentioned it at all. But that does not mean that she did not feel pressure to do it. If not pressure from her parents, then perhaps pressure from her peer group... her church, maybe? Kate, were your parents not pleased with your decision to ask Jesus into your heart?

echi wrote:

The Bible is a product of religious ideology. Your interpretation of the Holy Spirit is dogma. It is not a conclusion that you have reached on your own through a process of critical thinking. You received it on church authority and resist challenging its validity out of fear of reprimand. (methinks)

That last sentence is a (very good) guess (hence, "methinks"). But the rest of it is clearly true. What part do you disagree with?

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Christian culture ranges in the amount of pressure it puts on people outside of it to "be saved." It's ranges from very passive, to very agressive, and I think what echi is hypothosizing is that while Kate didn't experiance exteme and aggressive pressure to be saved, she still probably recieve more passive pressure to become a christian, and from kate's veiw, the difference in what kinds of support/pressure she recieved when compaed to the more extreme forms makes her experience seem like she was under no pressure, relatively speaking.

I agree with echi about the dogma of eing saved as a human construct, however, I was raised in a very liberal household and was allowed to explore any religion I wanted, and given no expectations, I certainly tried out being saved when I was younger. However to be fair, christian culture and themes are very resent in american life, so it is not without some degree of supsection that the idea may have still came from an extenal influence when I was younger.

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Confidence in your beliefs.

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