Eorl wrote:So you are saying that those who do walk away, must be lying about ever having had him in the first place?
kate4christ03 wrote:Actually most that walk away, openly admit that they never had the Holy Spirit in them. Just ask...
Oh, okay... So you just make sh!t up whenever you need to fill a hole in your fantastic belief system? (Is that in the Bible?)
I "walked away" from the church as soon as I was old enough to realize the absurdity of holding onto a belief that prohibits me from being open minded and thoughtful. Do you win points with God when you neglect the brain that He gave you?
Quote:I "walked away" from the church as soon as I was old enough to realize the absurdity of holding onto a belief that prohibits me from being open minded and thoughtful.
So echi did you have God in you YEs or NO? Did the Holy Spirit indwell you? Yes or no?
Quote:Do you win points with God when you neglect the brain that He gave you?
Yes very openminded and thoughtful of you....LOL
Did you have the Holy Spirit in you? Yes or no...
kate4christ03 wrote:Quote:I "walked away" from the church as soon as I was old enough to realize the absurdity of holding onto a belief that prohibits me from being open minded and thoughtful.
So echi did you have God in you YEs or NO?
Define "God".
Quote:Did the Holy Spirit indwell you? Yes or no?
Define "Holy Spirit".
Quote:Quote:Do you win points with God when you neglect the brain that He gave you?
Yes very openminded and thoughtful of you....LOL
...quite unlike your empty sarcasm.
If you have to ask for a definition on the holy spirit (which is clearly defined in the christian bible) then you never had him. So my statement stands. Most people who leave the christian church will say they never had God or the Holy Spirit. That is why they are atheist. I'm not attacking that or condemning them. I was just responding to eorls question. And your implication that i have no intelligence because of my unwavering belief in God belies the statement you made on being openminded and thoughtful.
Well, Kate does have one on you there Echi.
I can't help but wonder though, why people seem to be upset that Kate said 'you wouldn't have walked away if you didn't have the holy spirit' (or something to that effect)? Is possession of the holy spirit so important to people that they get upset at the suggestion that you don't have it?
I left Christianity more than a decade ago (so her statements re not having the holy spirit must apply to myself), yet I understand where Kate is coming from, and it doesn't offend me in the least.
And as for religion being imagination...my feeling is that much, perhaps the vast majority of it probably was made up, yet even though I think this, I see no reason to fling such thoughts at others in an accusatory manner - it achieves nothing, and the lack of respect for others just leaves a bad taste in the mouths of readers...why not debate healthily, support your beliefs, but try to be respectful about it?
Thank you vikorr. I'm with you. I welcome any respectful debate. I don't see the need to cast aspersions upon anyone simply because they may believe differently. I wasn't trying to say NAH NAH i have the Holy Spirit you dont....etc i was responding to eorl's question. Most atheists i know, and *gasp* consider as friends, tell me they left christianity because they stopped believing in God. And when questioned, have said they never had the Holy spirit. This goes along with the scripture i referenced, and the point i was trying to make.
This is a case of a bible-believer believeing that she has the monopoly on this thing she calls the holy spirit.
I am filled with the holy spirit. As I see it, this is just another word for the mysterious force that animates matter, the very thing we call life. It doesn't have to be something supernatural, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with god. Certainly not with christianity. Remember that the world was around long before christ, before judeaism and before any religion. The holy spirit is the human spirit, the animal spirit, the spirit that dwells in plants; in everything. It is not a christian phenomena. This spirit gave rise to christianity, christianity didn't give birth to it.
And in case you didn't get it, this spirit is a metaphor, a figurative entity, an abstraction.
Quote:I am filled with the holy spirit. As I see it, this is just another word for the mysterious force that animates matter, the very thing we call life.
Hey, I never knew you believed in that Cyracruz...very close to what I think on this subject...though I'd leave the 'holy' appendage off.
Quote:This is a case of a bible-believer believeing that she has the monopoly on this thing she calls the holy spirit
As far as I know, the Holy Spirit is a purely Christian concept (perhaps it extends to the other Abrahamic religions). And Kate is not refering to the essence of life when she says what she says - for somehow, I doubt she's claiming you don't have the essence/spirit of life in you.
Cyracuz wrote:
I am filled with the holy spirit. As I see it, this is just another word for the mysterious force that animates matter, the very thing we call life. It doesn't have to be something supernatural, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with god. Certainly not with christianity. Remember that the world was around long before christ, before judeaism and before any religion. The holy spirit is the human spirit, the animal spirit, the spirit that dwells in plants; in everything. It is not a christian phenomena. This spirit gave rise to christianity, christianity didn't give birth to it.
I love you for finally putting into words what I've been trying to say for so long.
Quote:As far as I know, the Holy Spirit is a purely Christian concept (perhaps it extends to the other Abrahamic religions). And Kate is not refering to the essence of life when she says what she says - for somehow, I doubt she's claiming you don't have the essence/spirit of life in you.
I couldn't have said it better. Thanks.
kate4christ03 wrote:If you have to ask for a definition on the holy spirit (which is clearly defined in the christian bible) then you never had him. So my statement stands.
kate... If the Holy Spirit is so clearly defined in the Bible then what is your problem giving a definition? I assert that it is because you are unable to back up your claim. I have no problem giving you a "yes" or "no" answer, but I first must know what I am being asked. This is not an unreasonable request.
Arella Mae wrote:echi wrote:If the Holy Spirit is so clearly defined in the Bible then what is your problem giving a definition? I assert that it is because you are unable to back up your claim. I have no problem giving you a "yes" or "no" answer, but I first must know what I am being asked. This is not an unreasonable request.
Hey Echi. Geesh, have you ever changed! 
You're being pretty uncharacteristic with Kate, from what I remember about you that is.
It's not like these questions haven't been answered over and over again or that you can't actually find the answer yourself in the Bible, Echi.
More and more this just all seems to be argument for argument's sake. Now I remember why I stopped coming to A2K. It's not about discussion and learning from each other anymore. It's about who is right and who is wrong and who can get the most digs in at the time.
Clarification of terms, Arella; that's all I am asking for. Without it no constructive dialogue is possible. What's the problem?
A quick google search would have given you an answer on the first page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit
As you don't believe in God, the obvious answer for yourself is no.
Have some respect, vikorr... at least enough to let me and kate answer our own questions.
Quote:Echi said:
Have some respect, vikorr... at least enough to let me and kate answer our own questions
Helping out by providing you with an answer is considered disrespectful?
Quote:Echi said:
Oh, okay... So you just make sh!t up whenever you need to fill a hole in your fantastic belief system? (Is that in the Bible?)
I "walked away" from the church as soon as I was old enough to realize the absurdity of holding onto a belief that prohibits me from being open minded and thoughtful. Do you win points with God when you neglect the brain that He gave you?
Also considering your request for respect, it seems you haven't bothered practicing it. The contradiction detracts from your request.
WOW my first post and it gets people hot headed.
I didnt intend to start a jihad in here my intention was to find out (beliver or atheist) why you belive what you belive. what makes you so sure that you faith is the right ansewer?
Maybe you're right, vikkor. I just get very bored with theists treating this site like it's some kind of christian support group instead of a forum for intelligent debate.
