Confidence in your beliefs.

OK thanks. I'm not sure if he would have been a liar, mistaken seems more accurate. I think I'm right in assuming you believe he had foreknowledge right? If he hadn't been resurrected and you feel this would have shown him to have not been God, this would also imply no such foreknowledge existed and he would have believed in a resurrection instead. What I don't really get is why some people are so devoutly Christian or Muslim or X, Y, Z. Let me expand, for instance, why is it so important that Jesus is God? I realise this is fundamental to Christian tradition but I'm talking in the sense of personal faith. Why is it important? Another question which might illuminate this is, which is more important, peace on earth or submission to god? Do we become part of a religious tradition because we sense a goodness, a truthfulness or integrity within said tradition, because we want to use it as a tool to promote happiness around us. Or do we become part of a tradition, do we develop faith because we are unsatisfied with the world around us and we want to believe in something more? Do we want eternal paradise because this world is too cruel? Regardless of the reason I don't want to pass judgement but if it is the latter in some way, an eternal justice that is not yielded in this existence, I think we run the risk of valuing an otherwordly ideal in higher esteem than our fellow man, in so doing, we cannot surely expect people of no faith to be intrigued by what ideas we have to offer.

On the other hand, if we genuinely want to promote well being and happiness around us, these incredibly specific beliefs about who Jesus was, what he was capable of, they're all irrelevant. This can be no more easily illustrated if you look at the truly peaceful existence of persons of no faith, in Christianity for instance. You could look at atheists even but what about another religion altogether like Buddhism and the way of life Buddhists lead. I believe the kingdom of heaven is within, I also believe that we can be a light unto ourselves. I think when people feel closest to God, they are closest to reality, the individual moment. The Kingdom of heaven is a state of mind, a perspective, I'd like to say it's open to us to rest in, each and every moment. I don't feel grasping to "ultimate" truths and arguing with others about right and wrong is important, what seems important is being a reasonable person, in this sense, talk of whether Jesus was God or "conquering" death is all besides the point, what matters is what we take from Jesus' actions & words, for ourselves.

The resurrection seems essential to Christian doctrine because someone, somewhere, created an idea and wanted this idea to be used to control people, as opposed to because such an ultimate "truth" leads to a peaceful world. Arguing over such truths that we have aligned ourselves with doesn't promote happiness, we need to be more embracing surely? What could be more imporant than a peaceful world, even in God's eyes? If a specific tradition or school of thought had the only key to peace, this might be different of course.

Echi for me, when God called me, it was like a pricking of the heart. I felt something i can't quite put into words. It was like an overwhelming need to ask Jesus to come in my heart. I couldn't do anything else, but that. Its a very strong conviction.

Ash ok its like this. The teaching that Jesus is God is essential in many ways. First and foremost, its clear in the bible. SO many verses state JEsus is God and he is the son of God. He is both. But to believe one and not the other is wrong. The reason this is so important is because of the whole issue of atonement theology. In the ot, a perfect unblemished lamb had to be used for sacrificing. No human can be perfect. We all screw up. Even a son of God, who isn't deity (God himself) would have fallen short, and then we would never have the chance for salvation. Secondly, how does it look for God to send someone else to save us, while he watches on his throne. See, God loves us so much that he died for us. While on earth, Christ talked about heaven and salvation alot. To ignore these things, is to ignore most of his teachings. How can one say they will learn from Christs teachings, yet not study them all. He also talked of being God. Even the pharisees, listening to his teachings, accused him of blasphemy for claiming to be God. THe whole point of Christ coming to earth in human form, dying on the cross and raising from the grave, was so we can have a relationship with God and eternal life with him in heaven. These teachings are fundamental to the christian faith.

And on the subject of looking too much into the afterlife, and ignoring or not caring for our fellow man; christians are taught, by Christ that our home is heaven. But, that doesn't negate the fact that while on earth, we are to love and care and help all mankind. We see examples of this in people like Lottie Moon and Mother theresa. Both of which were Godly women who knew that their final abode was heaven, but both gave their lives to helping those in need.

Okay...But how can you be certain that this God, whose calling you received, is accurately represented in the Bible? Do you have a better understanding of the Bible since being born again? Surely, you must now read it in the context of this experience of being called by God. No?
What did you think about God before you were called? What misconceptions do you think you might have had?

Hey, this was one of my favourite topics when I was a Christian. My stance was that the Bible must be read in conjunction with what we can observe in the world around us (ie. re: how to be good), and how that world works (and also recognise that the Bible wasn't exactly perfect - there are numerical errors, and many things it said related strictly to cutlural and environmental issues that could not apply elsewhere)

edit : sorry for butting in once again.

Kate, I'm talking about personal faith, I'm not really interested in the specifics regarding Christianity at this moment, hence my question, why is it important YOU believe jesus is God etc, I guess you're answer may be because of faith, so my question simply becomes why do YOU believe what you believe? At this point, faith could again be your answer, but it'd be a circular one, however, my point is merely to draw your attention to the existence and flourishing nature of other religions. If your answer is still faith, there seems to be a sense of because it is right/true/correct etc, but what of the origins/teachings of other religions who also promote love and care on earth.

This brings me back to my earlier questioning of why we become part of a certain religion/school of thought, I think most religions create a "truth" which they hold up as an absolute for people to grasp at, to crave and want, they do this to channel people for various reasons, some however, embrace other religions, some tell us to guide our own hand. You talk of christianity as if it's teachings are already a given, i know this is due to faith, I'm just pointing out the ideas out there concerning other religions, the all embracing nature of them, what could be more important than creating peace on earth? If the afterlife is, then I am asking WHY, on a personal level, not WHY because Christianity says so, we can learn from christ's teachings without reading all of it because christ's teachings are not absolute, you only need to look at the belief's, ideas, systems of thought in others to see, peace, love & harmony can be manifested in many ways. So I'm not saying that a belief in the afterlife intrinsically devalues our fellow man, I'm saying that holding to a specific idea of the afterlife merely because it is contained in a religion arguably devalues our fellow man, have not faith in a religion, have faith in yourself etc.

By the way, I have no doubt you can hold to a religion in a steadfast nature and be a good person, in a religion/spirituality forum it seems OK to widen the scope to religion in general though and simply ask why? I personally suspect that the truly good, will act reasonably in the face of adversity, not because the bible says so or because to act in such a way is the "truth" but because their very being guides them in such a way. I think truly good people are guided by their own intuition very often, not on an absolute idea. Just how I see it of course.

This is my stance, also, which has left me with very little reason to ever consult the Bible for anything.

You can find answers to just about any given situation in the Bible. Why wouldn't you consult it? IF you believe it is the inerrant word of God, why consult anything else?

sorry for not responding sooner....was out of town....
ok echi I was raised in a christian home and was eight when i got saved. I'm now 25. I have a better understand of the bible since being saved, obviously. But, I am still growing and do not understand everything yet, that is why i study and pray continuously. I know the God of the bible is an accurate representation of me God. How? Because of faith and the Holy Spirit in me, guiding me.



what exactly do you mean? Now that im saved and have the Holy Spirit, he guides me and helps me better understand the Word.

Simply because such answers are amorphous.

Sorry to interrupt, but I read this expression so often I decided to ask the question. What means "to be saved"?

Perhaps.

I see no need for faith in a God etc. I choose to invest my faith in myself, and in the idea that man desires to be good. Nothing more.

I don't discount the Bible's significance or value. I don't belittle any religious text for that matter. Many have great stories that are incredibly uplifting, and can be quite inspiring.

I'm actually quite a large fan of Christian themes, and mythos. I just don't believe it to be a sound doctrine.

the emotional and rational feelings I have towards the bible are similar to that one would have towards say the Harry Potter books: I enjoy it, it makes me think/imagine, I am given examples of strife, I am given a hero, and I admire the hero. But we can both agree that's not enough to make me want to model my life around Harry Potter.

Perhaps, I could have selected a better book, but I think the point is made.

If you try, you can find answers to just about any given situation anywhere you look. The Bible just doesn't appeal to me very much, so I tend to look elsewhere.

It means to be saved from one's sins, i.e. to be forgiven of one's sins by God.

Before you were saved, you had a somewhat different, or less complete, idea of "God" than you do now. I guess my question is, If the Bible is the literal, inerrant Word of God, then how can "being saved" affect the way that it is interpreted?
And, how do you know that it was God who called you? How were you able to recognize God if you did not know God?

Thanks, real life. But this saving seems to happens around 8 or 9 years old, doesn't it? What happens to save you?

Very often, the one having the experience of being saved is a junkie of 15 years finally off the drugs, or a cancer survivor, a criminal turned honest...
I guess what these people have in common is that they have all experienced a pivotal moment in their lives, a moment in which they saw the inevitability of their own demise only to be saved from it by circumstances they themselves don't fully grasp.

After such an experience it is wise to adopt another thing to cling to as a substitute for the destructive forces that have previously governed their lives, and religion is often this substitute.

This function of religion is one of the few I think is to the good.

I prefer to go to the top man, so to speak. He made the rules so why wouldn't one look to Him for the answers? Why would one want to look to anyone or anything less than the ultimate authority?

Arella, please tell us more about the process used " to go to the top man, so to speak.

No, no, Cyracuz, I think that expression has a specific meaning. I should have started a new thread to ask this question, but I did not because I thought it was simple to answer.

Sorry for the interruption, everyone.