Confidence in your beliefs.

way way back, i made the statement to neo that bf adam and eve sinned God knew they would sin. he disagrees. so i pointed to scripture that states bf he created the world (which would encompass humans ie adam and eve) he preordained Christ to die. that verse is irrefutable proof that God has absolute foreknowledge. this doesnt make me a calvinist (for i am not one) but i do believe as the bible shows, that God knows all we will do and all that will be done bf its done but we still have freewill. and hank, i wasnt "hitting below the belt" with neo. but if a person who is given scripture would rather quote a man over the bible, then that is wrong(if they claim to follow God). sorry but if any of you say you love God but deny scripture then your wrong. and if you want more scriptures on GOds foreknowledge i have plenty. its completely ridiculous to say God doesn't have absolute foreknowledge bc the majority of the bible is prophecies given by God for later dates. so if he doesn't know the future, were these just lucky guesses. Did he cross his fingers and hoped that Jesus would come and die for us when he gave these words to the prophets of the old testament?

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kate4christ03 wrote:

....scripture that states bf he created the world (which would encompass humans ie adam and eve) he preordained Christ to die. that verse is irrefutable proof that God has absolute foreknowledge. this doesnt make me a calvinist (for i am not one) but i do believe as the bible shows, that God knows all we will do and all that will be done bf its done but we still have freewill. .......

An excellent point, Kate.

Many prophetic passages show God's foreknowledge of man's moral choices AND the consequences of same.

One need not be a Calvinist to recognize that the Bible teaches this in many places.

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i can understand how a non-christian might have a problem with this, but i can't fathom how anyone who claims to follow God and believes scripture, holds the opinion that he doesn't have absolute foreknowledge. this doesn't make us puppets it just acknowledges God's omniscience.

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neologist wrote:

Another way of explaining it might be to say that before Adam and Eve sinned, for example, God knew there was a possibility that they would eat the fruit, but declined to peer into their moral outcome, thus permitting them free will. He is fully capable of allowing free will because he has the power to remedy any act against his purpose. In the case of mankind, he has provided a perfect human to willingly undergo Adam's death sentence in our behalf.

Does God have free will? I mean, he's God, so he can only do what is right, right? Also, if we sinners were created in his image then doesn't that make God a sinner, too?

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kate4christ03 wrote:

i can understand how a non-christian might have a problem with this, but i can't fathom how anyone who claims to follow God and believes scripture, holds the opinion that he doesn't have absolute foreknowledge. this doesn't make us puppets it just acknowledges God's omniscience.

Even a non-Christian would have to acknowledge that the Bible repeatedly teaches God's foreknowledge.

Whether they believe this to be true is another issue.

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Re: TO NEO: Have you not read the bible?

real life wrote:

hankarin wrote:
By the way, do you see any difference between these expressions, "before the founding of the world," and before the creation "of the heavens and the earth." If you don't see any difference consider researching them. There is a difference.

Other than your opinion, what do you base this on?

Do the research, RL.

You too, Kate.

There is a difference.

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echi wrote:

neologist wrote:
Another way of explaining it might be to say that before Adam and Eve sinned, for example, God knew there was a possibility that they would eat the fruit, but declined to peer into their moral outcome, thus permitting them free will. He is fully capable of allowing free will because he has the power to remedy any act against his purpose. In the case of mankind, he has provided a perfect human to willingly undergo Adam's death sentence in our behalf.

Does God have free will? I mean, he's God, so he can only do what is right, right? Also, if we sinners were created in his image then doesn't that make God a sinner, too?

God has free will, certainly.

When we were created in his image, it refers to his attributes of love, justice, wisdom, and power (free will). However, Satan and his human conscripts chose to sin.

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real life wrote:

kate4christ03 wrote:
i can understand how a non-christian might have a problem with this, but i can't fathom how anyone who claims to follow God and believes scripture, holds the opinion that he doesn't have absolute foreknowledge. this doesn't make us puppets it just acknowledges God's omniscience.

Even a non-Christian would have to acknowledge that the Bible repeatedly teaches God's foreknowledge.

Whether they believe this to be true is another issue.

As I have said before, non believers have no need to create straw men when 'believers' provide them in abundance.

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If it is simply based on the use of a different term, then one could as easily say that a 'boy' could not be a 'child' because a different word is used.

This seems like a distinction without a difference , especially if no one is willing to delineate one.

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neologist wrote:

echi wrote:
Does God have free will? I mean, he's God, so he can only do what is right, right? Also, if we sinners were created in his image then doesn't that make God a sinner, too?
God has free will, certainly.

When we were created in his image, it refers to his attributes of love, justice, wisdom, and power (free will). However, Satan and his human conscripts chose to sin.

Can God choose to sin?

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echi wrote:

neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
Does God have free will? I mean, he's God, so he can only do what is right, right? Also, if we sinners were created in his image then doesn't that make God a sinner, too?
God has free will, certainly.

When we were created in his image, it refers to his attributes of love, justice, wisdom, and power (free will). However, Satan and his human conscripts chose to sin.
Can God choose to sin?

Since sin is 'doing what God does not want done' ----

--- your question 'Can God choose to do what God does not want done?' is nonsense.

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Quote:

Do the research, RL.

You too, Kate.

There is a difference.

if you remember correctly neo, i did the research and disproved your theory of the scripture. do we need to break out the greek and hebrew once again? and if anyone cares to read this discussion, where i explain and disprove neo's theory of the scripture in 1peter, go to pages 42 and 43 of this thread.
it says "before the foundation of the world, God preordained Christ." and if you want to discount this scripture remember i also gave you jeremiah 1 where God said he KNEW, and ORDAINED jeremiah before he was even in his mother's womb. The God of the bible doesn't fit the image the jw's have taught you. now it's up to you to put aside those teachings and discover the God that created you and loves you.

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real life wrote:

echi wrote:
neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
Does God have free will? I mean, he's God, so he can only do what is right, right? Also, if we sinners were created in his image then doesn't that make God a sinner, too?
God has free will, certainly.

When we were created in his image, it refers to his attributes of love, justice, wisdom, and power (free will). However, Satan and his human conscripts chose to sin.
Can God choose to sin?

Since sin is 'doing what God does not want done' ----

--- your question 'Can God choose to do what God does not want done?' is nonsense.

this is RL's way of saying no, god can't choose to sin, god is limited in this regaurd. limited.

T
K
O

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real life wrote:

echi wrote:
Can God choose to sin?

Since sin is 'doing what God does not want done' ----

--- your question 'Can God choose to do what God does not want done?' is nonsense.

Can God change his mind about what he wants done?

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Can God Sin?
James 1:13-15 When under trial, let no one say: "I am being tried by God." For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.

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You mean to tell us that if we don't sin, we don't die? LOL

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kate4christ03 wrote:

neo john 5:28 doesn't say that...

John 5:28,29:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (King James)

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (American Standard)

If the judgement were based on deeds done in one's past life, it would be inconsistent with Romans 6:7; "He who has died has been acquitted from his sin."

Revelation 20: 12, 13 refers to the dead being judged according to scrolls opened in the resurrection.

Fair is fair, Kate. You would have God create individuals knowing they would be consigned to failure and then bring them back to life to revisit their failures. Then what? Roast them?

Really, Kate. No wonder the atheists are turned off by the God you describe.

kate4christ03 wrote:

and the greek shows that satan is god of this age....not world...scroll back to my last post. God hasn't been willfully ignorant, you believe that. I believe God knew everything bf he created anything (not very ignorant) i claim God is Omniscient. Im the one, neo ,with the scriptures that show God knows everything bf he created. You can believe them or believe what you've been taught. its up to you.

You have spilled a few noodles from your alphabet soup, Kate. If Satan is the god of this age, then he is pulling the strings of this age right now.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

You mean to tell us that if we don't sin, we don't die? LOL

That would be true, CI.

Easier said than done, however.

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echi wrote:

real life wrote:
echi wrote:
Can God choose to sin?

Since sin is 'doing what God does not want done' ----

--- your question 'Can God choose to do what God does not want done?' is nonsense.
Can God change his mind about what he wants done?

Yes. But he has said he would not change his purpose to have the earth populated by humans. (Isaiah 45:18)

That is, you may recall, what he told Adam and Eve.

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Confidence in your beliefs.

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