Confidence in your beliefs.

Kate;

When did god create hell, before he knew men would fail, or after?

What do you think non believers will conclude about a god who knowingly creates sentient beings destined for eternal roasting?

It is a common belief among atheists and agnostics that Adam and Eve were set up to fail. How do you answer that?

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neo first...what do you say on the verses i gave? do you disagree with those?

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mismi thanks.... Very Happy

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kate4christ03 wrote:

neo first...what do you say on the verses i gave? do you disagree with those?

Only your convoluted interpretations.

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mismi40 wrote:

Kate...you have such a good heart. I am so happy that you keep fighting the good fight! You are so very right, we are to love everyone no matter what they beleive.

I have noticed these subjects on personal beliefs always have the same outcome. But - that doesn't mean that good will not come of sharing our hearts with each other...on both sides. Great group of folks - though all are avid in their own beliefs. I hope we do love each other well in spite of the differences. I think you are doing that Kate.

I just wanted to encourage you. I know I feel swamped when I get on this end of the conversation! Good Words! God bless them every one!

I think most people who engage in thise kind of thread have friends and family members who believe differently in both religion and politics. Doesn't mean we don't love each other because of our differences, even though the language may become somewhat heated. We just need to realize that religion and politics are some of the strongest beliefs we have as humans, so emotions will get involved during the discussion; that's only natural.

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you're exactly right CI Very Happy

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Quote:

Only your convoluted interpretations.

neo how else can one interpret HE was preordained before the foundation of the world...
you incorrectly tried to use the greek and hebrew to disprove me, and i showed that there is no other way to interpret this verse. sorry neo you have nothing. even if you disregard this verse in peter, how do you disregard the verse in Jeremiah where God said he knew Jeremiah and ordained him as a prophet before he was even created. sorry but you've been taught incorrectly. now its up to you to study the verses sincerely and find the truth.

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Quote:

Only your convoluted interpretations.

neo how else can one interpret HE was preordained before the foundation of the world...
you incorrectly tried to use the greek and hebrew to disprove me, and i showed that there is no other way to interpret this verse. even if you disregard this verse in peter, how do you disregard the verse in Jeremiah where God said he knew Jeremiah and ordained him as a prophet before he was even created. sorry but you've been taught incorrectly. now its up to you to study the verses sincerely and find the truth.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
Only your convoluted interpretations.

neo how else can one interpret HE was preordained before the foundation of the world...
you incorrectly tried to use the greek and hebrew to disprove me, and i showed that there is no other way to interpret this verse. even if you disregard this verse in peter, how do you disregard the verse in Jeremiah where God said he knew Jeremiah and ordained him as a prophet before he was even created. sorry but you've been taught incorrectly. now its up to you to study the verses sincerely and find the truth.

I never said that, in certain instances God could not or would not peer into a person's moral future. He did so in the case of Jacob and Esau, as well. That in no way proves he is bound by necessity to do that in all cases. If that were true, the admonitions to "choose life" (Deuteronomy 30:19) or to "repent" (Matthew 3:2) would be meaningless.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

neo john 5:28 doesn't say that . . .

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5: 28,29 KJV)

Are you thinking that these will be judged according to their past deeds? That would not be consistent with Romans 6:7. "For he that is dead is freed from sin."

The judgement will be according to their deeds performed in the resurrection. They would first need to be taught, of course.

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Judgement day has been forthcoming for almost two centuries. What's the delay?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Judgement day has been forthcoming for almost two centuries. What's the delay?

Judgement day is never late. It arrives precisely when it intends to.

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I believe this was the thread where "believers" said there was an after-life, because of some telling us they had "out-of-body" experiences.

The bad news is that scientists have been able to simulate this out-of-body perception by confusing sensory signals.

That's one more down for the Christians. What else is there to support their beliefs?

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kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
Are you not a witness for Jesus?

echi being a witness for Christ means that i'm to love everyone, even the occasional rude skeptic (cough cough)...and i'm to tell others of the gospel. But i don't worry or care about the opinions of others in regards to my beliefs.

Yes, I am a skeptic. It keeps me from believing things that are not true; I recommend it to everyone. You, on the other hand, are a cynic. You fear that your own nature is somehow not good -- that's incredibly sad. This is perhaps what prevents you from taking a more honest look at things, from becoming more of a skeptic, yourself.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Judgement day has been forthcoming for almost two centuries. What's the delay?

CI is able to say this because he was around when folks first started talking about it. :wink:

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I believe this was the thread where "believers" said there was an after-life, because of some telling us they had "out-of-body" experiences.

The bad news is that scientists have been able to simulate this out-of-body perception by confusing sensory signals.

That's one more down for the Christians. What else is there to support their beliefs?

Don't tell me, tell xingu.
Interesting article.

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neo, Your link is interesting, but try this LINK for the out-of-body article in the San Jose Mercury news.

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The same was in the Seattle Post Intelligencer, I think. But all I could thnk of was the rubber hand, so I Googled it for ya.

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neologist wrote:

Quote:

I never said that, in certain instances God could not or would not peer into a person's moral future. He did so in the case of Jacob and Esau, as well. That in no way proves he is bound by necessity to do that in all cases. If that were true, the admonitions to "choose life" (Deuteronomy 30:19) or to "repent" (Matthew 3:2) would be meaningless.

neo so you believe that foreknowledge negates freewill?
you can disagree with me, but i'm just quoting the bible. You tried to say "world" meant something entirely different, yet you were wrong. It says " he preordained Christ to die before the foundation of the world." and you keep ignoring the verse in Jeremiah where God said he ordained him to be a prophet(before he was born). He wasn't just "peering into his future." God knows all before he created anything. I can't fathom how you believe God doesn't have complete foreknowledge. Have you not read the bible? Were all the prophecies just God's lucky guesses?

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neologist wrote:

Quote:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5: 28,29 KJV)

Are you thinking that these will be judged according to their past deeds? That would not be consistent with Romans 6:7. "For he that is dead is freed from sin."

The judgement will be according to their deeds performed in the resurrection. They would first need to be taught, of course.

it doesn't say they will be given a second chance to be taught in john 5. Your adding based on your church's doctorine. It does specifically say "they that have done good,...to life and they that have done evil...to damnation." so tell me this neo if all men are given a second chance, who in their right mind (after seeing GOd visibly bf them) would reject him and do evil and go into damnation, as this verse states? and neo please read romans 6 again. Paul is talking about how christians have "died to sin"
romans 6:2 "How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" and it goes on from there to talk about those that have died to sin, have been baptized in Christ's death and resurrected with him (Spiritually). and you really should have given verses 5,6 because it clearly shows that this is something that happened already (to paul and the other christians)

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Confidence in your beliefs.

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