1
   

Confidence in your beliefs.

 
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 12:47 pm
Quote:
The operative word in 1Peter is 'world', not 'earth'. The scriptures do not treat them as synonyms. See my post above and tell me if you would care to:

Who is the god of this world?

ps 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof, the WORLD, and they that dwell therein.
ps 90:2 before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the WORLD, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
your grasping at straws. world, earth etc....the fact is that God preordained Christ to die bf he made the world, and thus before he made man.
also neo are you going to ignore 2/3's of the bible, where God gave prophecies to be written down on events that would definitely take place in the future. Was he just guessing or lying? Neo the bible shows that God is omniscient, he isn't limited by man's feelings or beliefs. IF you believe God is limited in his knowledge, then you have to throw out the whole bible.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 02:42 pm
Quote:
Believing in the christian God was so simple just a few hundred years back, all you had to do was follow the flock. Nowadays christians have to rationalize every single letter in the bible. Oh yes, it was truly easier in the good 'ol days

coolwhip there aren't any new philosophies or beliefs or arguments about the bible, everything that is argued now has been argued for almost 2,000 yrs. most of the biggest debates within christianity started long ago.
arianism
calvinism
arminianism
etc etc........
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 02:44 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
Believing in the christian God was so simple just a few hundred years back, all you had to do was follow the flock. Nowadays christians have to rationalize every single letter in the bible. Oh yes, it was truly easier in the good 'ol days

coolwhip there aren't any new philosophies or beliefs or arguments about the bible, everything that is argued now has been argued for almost 2,000 yrs. most of the biggest debates within christianity started long ago.
arianism
calvinism
arminianism
etc etc........


And I would guess you deny and claims that organised religion is a good way of 'herding the sheep'?
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 02:57 pm
Quote:
And I would guess you deny and claims that organised religion is a good way of 'herding the sheep'?

i didn't say anything for or against organized religion as being a tool to gather many. all i pointed out is that your statement is incorrect. there isn't one belief or argument today (within christianity) that is new. people questioned, rationalized and argued just after Christs ascended, and have been ever since.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 03:04 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
And I would guess you deny and claims that organised religion is a good way of 'herding the sheep'?

i didn't say anything for or against organized religion as being a tool to gather many. all i pointed out is that your statement is incorrect. there isn't one belief or argument today (within christianity) that is new. people questioned, rationalized and argued just after Christs ascended, and have been ever since.


Actually, no. My point was that a few hundred years back very few people didn't question religion in the same way they do today (except for within intellectual societys, of which there also were fewer of).

But I guess I was wrong in any case. Because there is very little rationality in this thread.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 04:04 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
The operative word in 1Peter is 'world', not 'earth'. The scriptures do not treat them as synonyms. See my post above and tell me if you would care to:

Who is the god of this world?

ps 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof, the WORLD, and they that dwell therein.
ps 90:2 before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the WORLD, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
your grasping at straws. world, earth etc....the fact is that God preordained Christ to die bf he made the world, and thus before he made man.
also neo are you going to ignore 2/3's of the bible, where God gave prophecies to be written down on events that would definitely take place in the future. Was he just guessing or lying? Neo the bible shows that God is omniscient, he isn't limited by man's feelings or beliefs. IF you believe God is limited in his knowledge, then you have to throw out the whole bible.
Limited, no.
Forbearing, yes.
So the god of this world is _________? (2Corinthians 4:4)

Try not to confuse the Greek words for world with those of the Hebrews.

The 'world' (Greek, kosmos) as we know it did not come into existence until after Adam and Eve sinned. It is according to the prophecies in the 3rd chapter of Genesis that the current arrangement began.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 04:06 pm
Coolwhip wrote:
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
And I would guess you deny and claims that organised religion is a good way of 'herding the sheep'?

i didn't say anything for or against organized religion as being a tool to gather many. all i pointed out is that your statement is incorrect. there isn't one belief or argument today (within christianity) that is new. people questioned, rationalized and argued just after Christs ascended, and have been ever since.


Actually, no. My point was that a few hundred years back very few people didn't question religion in the same way they do today (except for within intellectual societys, of which there also were fewer of).

But I guess I was wrong in any case. Because there is very little rationality in this thread.
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 07:42 pm
Quote:
Believing in the christian God was so simple just a few hundred years back, all you had to do was follow the flock. Nowadays christians have to rationalize every single letter in the bible. Oh yes, it was truly easier in the good 'ol days

Quote:
Actually, no. My point was that a few hundred years back very few people didn't question religion in the same way they do today (except for within intellectual societys, of which there also were fewer of).
(you didn't state that the first time)
my point was that each argument or debate within christianity is old. even the one neo and i are discussing. there is nothing new under the sun and there have always been people within christianity to question what is mainstream at the time. we are not all the mindless sheep the world makes us out to be.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 10:54 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:

echi wrote:

Quote:
Did he know what he was creating, or didn't he? You can't have it both ways

echi foreknowledge and predestination [...] are two different things.
Ordinarily, yes. But to a creator god they are not so different. That is unless you contend, as neo does, that God was/is purposefully reckless (at our expense, I might add).
k4c wrote:
The bible shows us that God knew all before he created us, but he still gave freewill. This doesnt make us mindless robots subject to his whims, it just means that he is omniscient.
Just to be clear, I never meant to imply that your description would mean that we are mindless robots. But now that you mention it, I guess a creator god would have to regard us pretty much as mindless robots, in which case he would probably be bored out of his mind. (sucks to be him!)
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:18 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
Believing in the christian God was so simple just a few hundred years back, all you had to do was follow the flock. Nowadays christians have to rationalize every single letter in the bible. Oh yes, it was truly easier in the good 'ol days

Quote:
Actually, no. My point was that a few hundred years back very few people didn't question religion in the same way they do today (except for within intellectual societys, of which there also were fewer of).
(you didn't state that the first time)
my point was that each argument or debate within christianity is old. even the one neo and i are discussing. there is nothing new under the sun and there have always been people within christianity to question what is mainstream at the time. we are not all the mindless sheep the world makes us out to be.

I think Coolwhip brings up a very interesting point. Certainly, Christians of all types have been arguing for a long time. But they haven't had to deal with such a great amount of scrutiny, esp. from outsiders, as they have in recent times. There are also relatively recent discoveries, such as the Nag Hammadi texts, which have helped to cast doubt on the very foundation of mainstream Christianity.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 07:09 am
echi wrote:
kate4christ03 wrote:

echi wrote:

Quote:
Did he know what he was creating, or didn't he? You can't have it both ways

echi foreknowledge and predestination [...] are two different things.
Ordinarily, yes. But to a creator god they are not so different. That is unless you contend, as neo does, that God was/is purposefully reckless (at our expense, I might add). . .
Not my contention at all. It is the logical extension of the false premise of necessary foreknowledge.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 07:22 am
echi wrote:
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
Believing in the christian God was so simple just a few hundred years back, all you had to do was follow the flock. Nowadays christians have to rationalize every single letter in the bible. Oh yes, it was truly easier in the good 'ol days

Quote:
Actually, no. My point was that a few hundred years back very few people didn't question religion in the same way they do today (except for within intellectual societys, of which there also were fewer of).
(you didn't state that the first time)
my point was that each argument or debate within christianity is old. even the one neo and i are discussing. there is nothing new under the sun and there have always been people within christianity to question what is mainstream at the time. we are not all the mindless sheep the world makes us out to be.

I think Coolwhip brings up a very interesting point. Certainly, Christians of all types have been arguing for a long time. But they haven't had to deal with such a great amount of scrutiny, esp. from outsiders, as they have in recent times. There are also relatively recent discoveries, such as the Nag Hammadi texts, which have helped to cast doubt on the very foundation of mainstream Christianity.
HMM. Don't know what to say about all this.

But nowadays have neither Decretum Horrible nor Directorium Inquisitorium to guide us in our decision making.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 05:07 pm
neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
kate4christ03 wrote:
echi foreknowledge and predestination [...] are two different things.
Ordinarily, yes. But to a creator god they are not so different. That is unless you contend, as neo does, that God was/is purposefully reckless (at our expense, I might add). . .
Not my contention at all. It is the logical extension of the false premise of necessary foreknowledge.
If God's self-imposed ignorance has resulted in anyone's suffering then he has acted recklessly. Do you contend that God is or has been willfully ignorant?
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 05:23 pm
neologist wrote:
. . . But nowadays have neither Decretum Horrible nor Directorium Inquisitorium to guide us in our decision making.
Mr. Green (I had to look those up. Fascinating.)
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 10:38 pm
neologist wrote:
Quote:
Limited, no.
Forbearing, yes.
So the god of this world is _________? (2Corinthians 4:4)

Try not to confuse the Greek words for world with those of the Hebrews.

The 'world' (Greek, kosmos) as we know it did not come into existence until after Adam and Eve sinned. It is according to the prophecies in the 3rd chapter of Genesis that the current arrangement began.




neo so your saying that God is creator of all, all powerful etc yet he doesnt know what his creation will do bf they do it?
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 11:07 pm
GREEK world...(ko/smov) transliterated kosmos(used in 1peter)
the world,
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

HEBREW world/earth..(ur)transliterated 'erets ...(used in genesis1)
land, earth
earth (inhabitants)
whole earth

by the way neo the greek word for world used in 2cor 4:4 Is (aiÎwñn ) transliterated Aion which means for a period of time. so neo its not the same word

as 1peter stated bf the foundation of the earth/ world, which God created in genesis 1:1( and bf he made adam and eve) God knew he would send Christ.



and neo if you still want to disagree then you have to throw out JEremiah where God : Before i formed you in the womb I KNEW YOU; Before you were born I SANCTIFIED YOU; I ORDIANED YOU a prophet to the nations.(1:5)
and if you want more i can get them.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2007 11:57 pm
echi wrote:
neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
kate4christ03 wrote:
echi foreknowledge and predestination [...] are two different things.
Ordinarily, yes. But to a creator god they are not so different. That is unless you contend, as neo does, that God was/is purposefully reckless (at our expense, I might add). . .
Not my contention at all. It is the logical extension of the false premise of necessary foreknowledge.
If God's self-imposed ignorance has resulted in anyone's suffering then he has acted recklessly. Do you contend that God is or has been willfully ignorant?
John 5: 28 promises that all those who never knew God will be brought again to life and have a chance to claim the promise of everlasting life made to Adam and Eve. So, if one were to live a hundred or so years in peace, would he curse God for his former suffering or thank God for his unlimited future happiness?

The cost of genuine free will is the possibility of rebellion. As for your judgment of whether God has been willfully ignorant, that is for you to decide.

One thing seems certain: The issues raised in Eden, once decided, will never need to be revisited.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 12:01 am
Kate; I never meant to infer that Satan was the god of this world permanently.

But he has held that position since Eden until now.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 07:55 am
neo john 5:28 doesn't say that...
and the greek shows that satan is god of this age....not world...scroll back to my last post. God hasn't been willfully ignorant, you believe that. I believe God knew everything bf he created anything (not very ignorant) i claim God is Omniscient. Im the one, neo ,with the scriptures that show God knows everything bf he created. You can believe them or believe what you've been taught. its up to you.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2007 10:58 am
neologist wrote:
. . . As for your judgment of whether God has been willfully ignorant, that is for you to decide. . .

That's your judgment -- not mine (I don't believe in gods, remember?).
0 Replies
 
 

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