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Confidence in your beliefs.

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:13 am
Cyracuz wrote:
Might be good to have confidence in your beliefs. But it would be better to have belief in your confidence.
I believe that my confidence in my faith is well founded. :wink:
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 01:56 pm
Quote:
You said that when you were a kid, your faith was that of a child. But where did it come from? What was the reason?

echi im not sure but i thought we already discussed this?? But just in case we haven't, part of my faith came from my parents. Part was from myself, since faith is believing in something without proof (so to speak). But alot of my faith came from God. He gave it to me when he called me.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 02:01 pm
Quote:
But to what lengths do you go? Would you ever consider voting for a particular party simply because they had a more christian agenda, even if you disagreed with them on most other points?

No. I vote on a candidate based on their voting record (if they were in senate etc) and based on political views i have on certain topics such as abortion and taxes etc. Actually the other day, my husband and i were discussing politics and we were both in agreeance that we would vote for an athiest who was conservative over a christian who was liberal. As long as said athiest had no problem with religious freedoms etc.

Quote:
I think i heard someone on this site say that there are no christian children, only children with a christian upbringing (goes for any other religion/faith as well) . You don't develop a critic sense before you are around 13-14 years old.


i disagree. I was a christian child as were many others. Not everything said on this site is absolute truth, much is opinions.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 02:32 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
I think i heard someone on this site say that there are no christian children, only children with a christian upbringing (goes for any other religion/faith as well) . You don't develop a critic sense before you are around 13-14 years old.


i disagree. I was a christian child as were many others. Not everything said on this site is absolute truth, much is opinions.


That wasn't opinion, nor anything previously stated on this site. Perhaps that wasn't too clear.

The fact of the matter is that the human brain isn't fully evolved until age 20. Have you ever seen a christian child with jewish or atheist parents? Who became christians without the influence of adults? I think not...
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 03:16 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
You said that when you were a kid, your faith was that of a child. But where did it come from? What was the reason?

echi im not sure but i thought we already discussed this?? But just in case we haven't, part of my faith came from my parents. Part was from myself, since faith is believing in something without proof (so to speak). But alot of my faith came from God. He gave it to me when he called me.

If I am asking the same questions over and over it's just because I am having trouble understanding. (I don't mean to harass you.)

Why do you believe (without proof) in some things but not in others? If you have no proof that the Christian God exists then how is it that you have become convinced that he does?
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2007 02:03 pm
Quote:
I think i heard someone on this site say that there are no christian children, only children with a christian upbringing (goes for any other religion/faith as well)

that is the opinion i was speaking of. THe majority of adult christians, became christians at a young age. You should probably go back and read some of my previous posts. when i discussed how as a child, my faith was that of a child but as i matured and could question things, my faith grew.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2007 02:08 pm
Quote:
If I am asking the same questions over and over it's just because I am having trouble understanding. (I don't mean to harass you.)

i know. It's ok. I'm not aggravated Very Happy

Quote:
Why do you believe (without proof) in some things but not in others? If you have no proof that the Christian God exists then how is it that you have become convinced that he does?

echi its all about faith. and once i stepped out on faith as a child, God revealed himself to me. Did he physically manifest himself, NO. but i feel his presence and i see the work he has done in my life.i can't give you a pic of him but i know he is real. As i stated earlier why not read the book "Case for Christ" by lee strobel. He was a hard core athiest, who set out to prove Christ was not real, after his wife got saved.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2007 02:57 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
I think i heard someone on this site say that there are no christian children, only children with a christian upbringing (goes for any other religion/faith as well)


that is the opinion i was speaking of. THe majority of adult christians, became christians at a young age. You should probably go back and read some of my previous posts. when i discussed how as a child, my faith was that of a child but as i matured and could question things, my faith grew.


You even said it yourself, you were raised in a christian family. Maybe I misunderstood you, but you do realize that the christian faith of a child is about as meaningful as believing in Santa Claus? If you were raised in a jewish family you would probably be defending the jewish faith right now, seeing as you are so uncritical of your belief.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 08:22 am
Quote:
Maybe I misunderstood you, but you do realize that the christian faith of a child is about as meaningful as believing in Santa Claus?

I have yet to meet an adult that still believes in Santa Claus.
Quote:
If you were raised in a jewish family you would probably be defending the jewish faith right now

there are so many stories of adults who have left whatever belief they were raised in to become christians. You can't say that there are no true christian children because you don't know. You are giving opinion. I know i was a christian child, saved at a young age. And lo and behold, as an adult, I'm still a christian.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 10:36 am
kate4christ03 wrote:
there are so many stories of adults who have left whatever belief they were raised in to become christians. You can't say that there are no true christian children because you don't know. You are giving opinion. I know i was a christian child, saved at a young age. And lo and behold, as an adult, I'm still a christian.


The muslims tell us that there are many stories of Christians that have left their faith for Islam.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=487377#487377

Wiccans have a similar line.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=96516

All of the worlds religions have converts, but the truth of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of participants in any of the worlds major religions were raised in that religion.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 12:03 pm
Quote:
All of the worlds religions have converts, but the truth of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of participants in any of the worlds major religions were raised in that religion.


yes mesquite that's correct. i wasn't debating that. I was just disagreeing with the statement that there are no christian children. and i think that the fact that a majority of adults who are christians, became christians as children and stayed within the faith, proves my point.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 04:09 pm
If your point was that most adults retain whatever religion they were taught as children then I agree with you.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 04:48 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
echi wrote:
Why do you believe (without proof) in some things but not in others? If you have no proof that the Christian God exists then how is it that you have become convinced that he does?

echi its all about faith. and once i stepped out on faith as a child, God revealed himself to me. Did he physically manifest himself, NO. but i feel his presence and i see the work he has done in my life.i can't give you a pic of him but i know he is real. As i stated earlier why not read the book "Case for Christ" by lee strobel. He was a hard core athiest, who set out to prove Christ was not real, after his wife got saved.

I guess I just don't get it, kate. Maybe it is easier for children to have faith, to believe in something just because someone told them to. But how does an adult decide to just believe that something is true? What kind of world would it be if we believed in things for no reason?
(okay, okay. . . I will take a glance at the book. sheesh..)
0 Replies
 
IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2007 05:52 pm
As Stevie said, "When you believe in things that you don't understand, you suffer. Superstition ain't the way."
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 11:52 am
Well, kate, I glanced at it (the book, Case for Christ by Lee Strobel).
Instead of me having to read the whole thing perhaps you could just give me the really good bits and I can respond to those. In your opinion, what makes his "case" so convincing?
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 12:44 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
All of the worlds religions have converts, but the truth of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of participants in any of the worlds major religions were raised in that religion.


yes mesquite that's correct. i wasn't debating that. I was just disagreeing with the statement that there are no christian children. and i think that the fact that a majority of adults who are christians, became christians as children and stayed within the faith, proves my point.


If your point is that most christians are indoctrinated that you would be correct. And if you think that children are capable of thinking through existential questions than you are just plain wrong.

The fact is that the vast majority of christians haven't really thought through their belief. This is quite a sweeping statement, but consider the fact that millions and millions of people actually claim that they follow the very same religious doctrine. While you will have a lot of problems finding two sane people claiming to agree on every single aspect of pretty much any case.

Why does something so personal as religion need to be so so damn mass produced? Because most people can't / won't think existential questions through.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 08:05 pm
Quote:
Why does something so personal as religion need to be so so damn mass produced? Because most people can't / won't think existential questions through.


Couldn't argee more. I see he whole issue as the following analogy.

There was once a small group of people that gethered to admire the artistic nature of a butterfly's wings. They stared at it, and wondered at it's beauty. They began sharing ideas on how the butterfly had come to be this way, the disscussion began with one question and then expanded to new and better questions than before. While few questions were answered, and many were created, the general feeling amongst the group was satisfaction.

But soon that satisfaction was gone. A large and omnious crowd of people came all speaking as one and said that the group was wasting their time creating questions when they already ad the answers. At first the large group was confident that their volume would intimidate the smaller group and that the smaller group would find their answer agreeable. However one in the small group instead asked about the butterfly. This act was recieved as treachery, and then the crowd began to namecall.

However during the hysteria, some of the people joined the smaller group. Inspired by the question of the butterfly, they too had made a question. They wanted to share their question with the small group. As time went on, the smaller group became larger, and the crowd became smaller. Interestingly enough, as the large crowd became smaller it became more intense, and apprached a degree of a small riot.

The debate became more firece: Questions verses answers, was now longer strong enough and a few people left the questioning group because they became scared. seeing this momentum change, the debate became theories versus answers. This stalemate was only broken by the riot's claim that it was a debate about theries versus truth. The arguement swelled and eventually both sides were very agitated, more focused on the others demise and less on the topic at hand. As all this continued, the memory of the butterfly was lost, and all parties involved forgot about the big picture and the small picture.

Religion is not about law, Science is not about makeing the universe less special, and when we are affraid of questions, it only answers the query of how confident we are in our beliefs.

I would venture to say that Scientists like myself, do not have (for lack of a better word) "beliefs," but what we have: evidence, and a desire to pursue truth we are very confident in. So I'm a question person.

My "I don't know" is just as valuable as a answerman's "I do."

T
Know
O
0 Replies
 
IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 09:44 pm
Diest TKO wrote:

I would venture to say that Scientists like myself, do not have (for lack of a better word) "beliefs," but what we have: evidence, and a desire to pursue truth we are very confident in. So I'm a question person.

My "I don't know" is just as valuable as a answerman's "I do."

If all your questioning doesn't bring you to answers, what purpose has it served? It is fine to have a sense of wonder and curiosity about the world, but we should also grow in knowledge. Should we only be curious about the questions that science can answer, questions about the objective world? Most people also want to know about their origin, whether God exists, what happens when you die, what is consciousness, and so forth. For spiritual truth, we must look within.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 03:02 am
Fair question, but perhaps you misunderstand. I simply put a greater premium on the persuit of knowledge rather than the volume of knowledge acquired.

I concider myself a student of the world.

If I am speaking to cryptically, I can provide a literal example. I am an aerospace engineer. When I began learning about my field of study, I measured my passion by how much I knew. Moreover, I displayed that information. Now, as I have matured, I find myself more impassioned by the seemingly endless amounts in information I yet to know. I feel like I am at my best when I am challenged with new concepts. These questions feed my passion, and I have seen this with others too.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2007 05:26 am
IFeelFree wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:

I would venture to say that Scientists like myself, do not have (for lack of a better word) "beliefs," but what we have: evidence, and a desire to pursue truth we are very confident in. So I'm a question person.

My "I don't know" is just as valuable as a answerman's "I do."

If all your questioning doesn't bring you to answers, what purpose has it served? It is fine to have a sense of wonder and curiosity about the world, but we should also grow in knowledge. Should we only be curious about the questions that science can answer, questions about the objective world? Most people also want to know about their origin, whether God exists, what happens when you die, what is consciousness, and so forth. For spiritual truth, we must look within.


If someone seeks to know where we come from, than why not become a biologist? Than they would really dig deep into the matter of human existence. But very few people do this. Why? Because it is hard[/i] and requires much more of that person. Most people seek easy answers.
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