Masturbation and God

NickFun wrote:

If God kills people for masturbating why aren't we all dead?

For some, it takes longer than others.

0 Replies

NickFun wrote:

If God kills people for masturbating why aren't we all dead?

he kills KITTENS! not people...

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/1/1d/350px-God-kills-kitten.jpg

either that or most people are just not doing it right.. Shocked

0 Replies

Run 4 fun wrote:

Bella, what makes you think that the Bible is just a bunch of parables? It contains parables, yes, but why do you think it is entirely composed of parables when textual analysis reveals quite the opposite. Even to say the Bible is just parables does not justify contradicting it. "The fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom." The Bible speaks of God's righteous anger far too often for you to dismiss it as "parable". To say that Jesus was human and therefore sinned is not conclusive logic. His divinity and your belief in Scripture (at least at some level) annihilates the possibility of his sinfulness.

Please justify: 1) God doesn't get angry. 2) The Bible was never meant to be a literal translation. 3) You can be sure some has been lost in translation. If it was divinely guided, then the meaning of scripture would remain intact. If it was divinely inspired, then it is pure, not distorted by the authors.

Unfortunately, sincerity of belief does not ensure that the belief id true. People all around the world sincerely belive, with no doubts and 100% certainty, many beliefs which are contradictory. Obviously they cannot all be true. I may sincerely believe that I am running the right direction home on a run that I don't know, but I then come out 7 miles from home. No matter how sincere I am, it doesn't make me right. I am sorry if that all sounds harsh, but it is hard to put the respectfulness into such hard questions. In my experience, I have found liberal Christianity to be very dangerous and unjustified.

In my experience, and the experience of most of the free world, is that consersatives tend to be very dangerous and unjustified. zThey are the ones who do crazy things "in the name of God".

As for your questions....where is your proof that what I state it isn't true? And how do you know (again with that pesky proof) that what you believe is the one truth?

0 Replies

You stated your claims. I did not deny them, but showed that the Bible that you claim to believe in denies them. It is up to you then to justify this discrepancy, not divert the question.

0 Replies

I hate this 'hierachy' within christianity.
Whilst Bella conciders herself a christian, Run 4 Fun doesn't think she is a 'true' christian.

I remember that from church when I was 13, my friend telling me I wasn't a proper christian because I hadn't made my 'promise to god.'

0 Replies

I don't think that Bella is trying to claim that the Bible does not say what it does.

From what I understand, there are basically three types of Christians out there. No matter what denomination (or non-denomination) you belong to, you probably fall into one of these categories:

There are those who believe that the Bible is literally true.

There are those who believe that the Bible addresses certain truths by speaking in metaphor.

There are those who believe that the Bible was inspired by God, but has changed through the work of the human hands that wrote it, edited it, and did or didn't canonize (Thank you, Emperor Constantine) the books that are included and left out (Why does Constantine get to be the judge of what is truly the word of God and what isn't anyway?).

I'm not sure exactly which category Bella fits into, but I'm guessing it is not the first. Therefore, her point is not that the Bible doesn't condemn certain activities, but that even if it does, perhaps that is not the grain of truth that God originally intended us to focus on.

My own personal opinion (and I'll admit it changes at times) is that humans get so caught up trying to figure out what is and isn't sinful that we forget how to actually love God. I wonder if God is really so focused on our behaviors after all. I mean, certainly He wants to behave in ways that are beneficial and not harmful. How does masturbating hurt anyone?

A side note on Onan: That passage refers to prematurely "pulling out," a primitive form of birth control. He is not "spilling his seed" unnecessarily through masturbation.

0 Replies

TPQ, I am not saying that she is not Christian. I do not know her heart. "Do not judge lest you yourself be judged." She may very well be saved through her relationship with Christ, but this does not mean that all of her doctrine is entirely sound or true. Neither is mine. In further Bible study, I have had to edit my own doctrinal understanding of many things. Never have I said the she is not a true Christian. I know now someone will say that I have judged masturbators. I have judged masturbation not the hearts of masturbators. One can judge the sin and not the sinner. I do not think of myself as somehow superior to any of you, for we are all steeped in sin, but through the Spirit because of Christ I am being sanctified.

If God has no anger, then there is no consequence for sin. If there is no consequence, then there is no need for salvation or a savior. On the night that Jesus was betrayed, He prayed that if there was any other way, that God would let this cup pass from him. There was no other way. If God never gets angry, then Jesus was crucified for nothing! Christianity is based on the need for a savior. If God is never angry, Christianity is worthless! So what makes you think God is never righteously wrathful?

0 Replies

Who would win, Superman, or Mighty Mouse?

0 Replies

Quote:

My own personal opinion (and I'll admit it changes at times) is that humans get so caught up trying to figure out what is and isn't sinful that we forget how to actually love God. I wonder if God is really so focused on our behaviors after all. I mean, certainly He wants to behave in ways that are beneficial and not harmful. How does masturbating hurt anyone?

I agree with you danielle.
Constantine changed the bible because he was faced with a half pagan, half christian country. I think he did it to please the masses.
According to QI there was a pagan god called Mithras who was born on the 25th of december in a stable, and got visited by three kings.....

Run 4 Fun, I think thats the soirt of response I would have given when I was a christian.

0 Replies

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Who would win, Superman, or Mighty Mouse?

Speedy Gonzalez....

0 Replies

Let's say Bipolar Bear here was walking down the street, and saw his buddy Lance out on a sunny day washing his Mazda Miata in the driveway. Lance has his shirt off because it's hot out. Lance starts spraying BPB with water, so he has to take off his clothes, and while doing so, BPB slips on the soap and falls ass first onto Lance's penis. Is this a sin? Then what if Lance's roommate, Bruce, comes out of the shower running outside to see what the commotion is, also slips on the soap, and falls penis first onto BPB's face? Does BPB have to go say some Hail Mary's to make everything ok?

Please guide me, ruinUrFun. I need to find Allah, or whatever his name is. Praise Mohammed? Who is it I'm supposed to be rooting for again?

0 Replies

Run 4 fun wrote:

You stated your claims. I did not deny them, but showed that the Bible that you claim to believe in denies them. It is up to you then to justify this discrepancy, not divert the question.

No I stated my beliefs.

And I have no reason to justify anything to you.

That's the difference between you and me; I don't feel the need to justify my beliefs.

0 Replies

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

I hate this 'hierachy' within christianity.
Whilst Bella conciders herself a christian, Run 4 Fun doesn't think she is a 'true' christian.

I remember that from church when I was 13, my friend telling me I wasn't a proper christian because I hadn't made my 'promise to god.'

There was a Queen who had a dog and bingo was his name-o...

That's just one of the reasons I can't stand organized religion.

0 Replies

daniellejean wrote:

There are those who believe that the Bible addresses certain truths by speaking in metaphor.

There are those who believe that the Bible was inspired by God, but has changed through the work of the human hands that wrote it, edited it, and did or didn't canonize (Thank you, Emperor Constantine) the books that are included and left out (Why does Constantine get to be the judge of what is truly the word of God and what isn't anyway?).

I'm not sure exactly which category Bella fits into...

Thanks danielle. :wink:

Those two are both correct.

I think that the bible does speak in metaphor and in parables but holds a certain truth....love, honor, compassion, forgivness and goodness to name just a few. The stories themelves are not what are important but the message they carry is....and those messages are basic messages that shouldn't be and I don't think were intended to be direct commands on every little thing.

I also believe that the bible has been ruined by man. We are fallible, therefore there is no doubt in my mind that somewhere along the way, someone changed something or messed up a tranlation or chose one book or story over another because they "felt" a certain way that day.... To me, that makes the bible man made. God didn't cast down a book written by his own hand. A man wrote it. Based on what he thought God wanted him to write. His perception.

The entire bible is based on human perception. The broader message is based on Jesus' teachings to love, honor, have compassion for and do good works for your fellow mankind.

If God were here, I think he'd be absolutely appalled at the things going on in His name.

0 Replies

was that meant to be an insult or a complement? sorry bella, can't work it out.

0 Replies

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

was that meant to be an insult or a complement? sorry bella, can't work it out.

To you? OH! What you said was right on.

Like saying "BINGO!" or "Bullseye!"

Get it? :wink:

0 Replies

Well Bella, Socrates once said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." I agree. It follows then, that since faith has such an incredible impact on life that the unexamined faith is not worth believing.

Unjustifiable beliefs have no reason for belief except that they may make you feel good. This sort of "Moralistic Therepuetic Deism" is the main religion of Americans (according to the largest sociological religion study ever, currently in progress under Christian Smith).

You're right Bella, God is here, and He is appalled at many things. Sad

You said: "The entire bible is based on human perception." You believe that what you believe about the Bible is objectively right, but if it is all just based on human perception, then there is not an objectively right way to understand this "ruined" and "messed up" text. Once you contradict yourself, your world view loses its credibility. That is why you need to justify your beliefs.

0 Replies

Run 4 fun wrote:

You said: "The entire bible is based on human perception." You believe that what you believe about the Bible is objectively right, but if it is all just based on human perception, then there is not an objectively right way to understand this "ruined" and "messed up" text. Once you contradict yourself, your world view loses its credibility. That is why you need to justify your beliefs.

And why is that? It's like saying that growing up in a home with parents who use drugs, drink excessivly, sleep around, beat each other and do things that "normal" loving families don't do will always, without exception, produce children who believe that the life they are living is right.

We inherently know right from wrong to some degree. No one, in their right minds, believes that murder is ok. We didn't get that from the Bible. It is just something we know.

Some of us choose to ignore it. Some of us choose to believe we have a right to behave a certain way. Some of us choose....get it?
Right or wrong is not subjective. Human perception and reality is subjective. The view of the bible is done through human eyes and human hands, there for is in some degree, subjective. Therefore cannot be 100% truth. But that doesn't mean there is NO truth in it or that because you don't believe it's 100% that the bible wasn't created to remind us of basic right and wrong.

0 Replies

Ah cool, bella.

Quote:

Well Bella, Socrates once said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." I agree. It follows then, that since faith has such an incredible impact on life that the unexamined faith is not worth believing.

Unjustifiable beliefs have no reason for belief except that they may make you feel good. This sort of "Moralistic Therepuetic Deism" is the main religion of Americans (according to the largest sociological religion study ever, currently in progress under Christian Smith).

Run 4 fun, I actually agree with you.
I hope you don't mind me asking you some off-the-topic questions, just for my own curiosity:

What would you say to someone who belives exactly the same as you, but only because it was passed onto them by their parents, (they have never questioned it). If they are right, would you agree that they should start questioning what they believe, even though there is the danger of them chaniging their mind? Their faith is exactly the same as yours, yet 'not worth believing in' because they have never tried to justify it.

As to the second paragraph you posted. I agree that 'moralistic theraputic deism' is just to make you feel good. But I believe that about all religion.
If a hindu can completely and utterly justify their beliefs, and can outwit any quip or bible quote you give them, what does it mean? That their religion is more credible than yours? Does it become more true than yours?

Bella doesn't have to justify her beliefs to you because her beliefs have nothing to do with you. They are between her and God, not her and you. It is not you that she needs to prove them too. I don't believe you can truly 'justify' beliefs, because if you could then they wouldn't be beliefs, they would be facts.

0 Replies

NickFun wrote:

If God kills people for masturbating why aren't we all dead?

The wages of sin is death.

But after taxes, it's just a really tired feeling.

(Direct ripoff from Paula Poundstone....)

0 Replies

Masturbation and God

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know