How long will christians take this???

Since God was OK with David having 700 wives (not to mention 300 concubines) and many other OT characters had multiple wives, I don't know how anyone can claim that there is Biblical support for the notion that God intended marriage to be between 1 man and 1 woman.

Arella Mae, you claim that the Word of God does not change, but it most certainly did from the OT to the NT. God had a covenant with the Israelites which imposed very strict dietary and conduct Laws and required transgressors to be stoned to death for certain infractions. Although Jesus said that he was not here to change the Law, Paul decided that the Law no longer applied, and many Christians inexplicably celebrate Easter by eating ham, even though God said that eating pork is an abomination.

Jesus said he didnt come to destroy the law but to fulfill it..(matt 5:17)
and he did, so we dont have to...(john 8)
Paul didnt change anything. He was writing what was given to him by God and was acknowledged by the other apostles...(2peter 3:15-16)
The law was given under the first covenant...
in jeremiah (31)and zecheriah (8),God told of a time he would make a new covenant.
The new covenant was ushered in after Christ became the sacrificial lamb for the sins of the world...(john 1:29)
In this covenant we arent under the law anymore but under grace(hebrews)

Mind closed tighter than a clamshell when the tide is out.

So Arella, this was all bullshit then??

Wolfie, J_B, flushd,

Wolfie, thanx so much for telling me that. I am so sorry you had any pain caused by anyone because of who you are. And, I am sorry that my mindset and attitude through life has been part of that. Maybe not to you directly, but it's been there.

I have looked at quite a bit throughout this thread and a couple of other things that have shown me some things about myself that I needed to see.

I didn't think I was hurting anyone by the way I felt about this issue. I was completely wrong about that. COMPLETELY WRONG! I cannot apologize enough for my actions.

I can; however, make sure that I don't repeat them. Thank everyone so much for going through this with me and helping me to discover these things.

I was a homophobic bigot. I WAS a homophobic bigot. I am not one now.

Sozobe, thank YOU especially for starting this thread and taking the time to go through this with me. You're a very special person.

CI,

You are a gentleman. Hi, I'm Momma Angel and I'm glad to meet you.

Mesquite,

Now, I owe you an apology also. This has not been an easy thing for me to do. But, it is definitely something I have found very necessary. I can now see how my attitude and actions deeply offended and most likely hurt you, Mesquite. I wish I could go back and change it, but I can't. Please forgive me for being such a close-minded fool in regard to this issue and others. I hope that you can forgive me and we can go back to that bantering back and forth with a bit of humor and a good dose of reality (usually from you, that is)?

No apologies needed MA. It is not what you have said in the past , but what you say in the future that matters.

Concerning the perceived conflict with your religious views, many other devoutly religious people have found a way to reconcile this issue and I sincerely hope that you will be able to also.

Thank you, Mesquite. I am hoping to reconcile these issues. I think I'm on the right track. :wink:

mesquite wrote:

Mind closed tighter than a clamshell when the tide is out.

So Arella, this was all bullshit then??

Look, to be quite honest with you Mesquite, I don't care much for you anymore. We used to have decent conversations and you were at least civil and now you are cussing.

maporsche wrote:

Did you even read the links that discuss the controversy or the interpretation.

No, I had no need to read them. If you think they need interpretation then fine, but I find it very clear as to what the Bible says about this issue.

Cyracuz wrote:

Yes, christians hate sin, and take it out on "sinners". Gay people, for instance.

And I, for one, do not despise all that is good, although I have a strong dislike towards those who claim a monopoly on knowing what it is.

Perhaps it would be a bit fairer to say "some" Christians? We are to hate the sin, but love the sinner. If anyone is doing it differently than that, they are in error according to the Bible. I certainly do not claim to have a monopoly on knowing what sin is, however; God does and He tells us exactly what sin is in the Bible

i am tired of this same old crap. people constantly look to christians for advice. but it seems almost anything you see today on television or read in magazines is either publicizing events that do not go along with christian beliefs. or they are bashing christians. like the t.v show family guy. it constantly shows Jesus and god in bars. in bed with woman. and shows them acting like thusgs. i ask how long will us christians take this.

I certainly do not claim to have a monopoly on knowing what sin is, however; God does and He tells us exactly what sin is in the Bible

Sin and Satan are the two things we are to hate. We are sinners ourselves, but have been saved from the power of sin and death! That is why we call on the unsaved to repent and must battle our own sins at the same time but with the help of the Spirit. If we didn't love the sinner, then we would not be trying to save them. I only wish there was more I could do, but they have to accept Christ for themself.

Is that what bothers you most about Christians? that they (some that you know) think they have the inside track on "going to heaven"?

Arella Mae wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:

Yes, christians hate sin, and take it out on "sinners". Gay people, for instance.

And I, for one, do not despise all that is good, although I have a strong dislike towards those who claim a monopoly on knowing what it is.

Perhaps it would be a bit fairer to say "some" Christians? We are to hate the sin, but love the sinner. If anyone is doing it differently than that, they are in error according to the Bible. I certainly do not claim to have a monopoly on knowing what sin is, however; God does and He tells us exactly what sin is in the Bible

If you do not support same-sex marriage for this mere reason, then it is enough to conclude that your belief is destructive. Not to support same-sex marriage is as destructive as not to support anti-discrimination in general, and is as destructive as not to support anti-racism.

Quote:

i am tired of this same old crap. people constantly look to christians for advice. but it seems almost anything you see today on television or read in magazines is either publicizing events that do not go along with christian beliefs. or they are bashing christians. like the t.v show family guy. it constantly shows Jesus and god in bars. in bed with woman. and shows them acting like thusgs. i ask how long will us christians take this.

The reason perhaps is that people have bad beliefs because of Christianity, and they refuse to change it because of Christianity.

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I certainly do not claim to have a monopoly on knowing what sin is, however; God does and He tells us exactly what sin is in the Bible

Do you claim to have a monopoly on knowing what God knows what sin is?

Quote:

Sin and Satan are the two things we are to hate. We are sinners ourselves, but have been saved from the power of sin and death! That is why we call on the unsaved to repent and must battle our own sins at the same time but with the help of the Spirit. If we didn't love the sinner, then we would not be trying to save them. I only wish there was more I could do, but they have to accept Christ for themself.

You then deplore people. It is not enough to respect people. It is necessary to respect people as they are. For example, it is not enough to say that a person is good despite being black. That would imply that being black is a bad thing. It would only be enough for he or she to be respected as a black.

Quote:

Is that what bothers you most about Christians? that they (some that you know) think they have the inside track on "going to heaven"?

The thing about Christians is their tendency to to feel superior to others, and their tendency to hate others.

That, however, is not the reason that they are bothering. Tendencies are not rules, and as long as they are not rules, one cannot judge groups of people by generalizations.

The thing that is bothering about religious people in general is that they have an inability to change their beliefs. The ability to change one's own beliefs is very important, in that it allows improvement upon previous beliefs, and replacement with better beliefs. This is important because humans are falliable, and humans do err.

Religious people who believe that their own beliefs can be false, and that their beliefs need to be founded upon reason, on the other hand, are far less bothering.

Quote:

We all have the right to practice our religion or non-religion alike.

Indeed, we do. Indeed, I think that one should not call another "crazy" or "deluded" because of beliefs. However, we should not take this to think that all beliefs are equally true, in that if I am right, then you are wrong. We may have a right to believe whatever we want, even if it is false, but it does not mean that whatever we believe is true. Humans do err, and humans can be wrong, and as you are a human, you can be wrong. I am not saying that you are wrong, but I am saying that it is not impossible for you to be wrong.

Quote:

"Never judge a philosophy by its abuse"

Indeed, I am not against religion, or Christanity or any other religion. What I am against is blind faith, and infallibilism. Infallibilism is the truly dangerous thing here, not religion.

Run 4 fun wrote:

Lastly, at the beginning of time, God define marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman. This excludes homosexuality from the ordained natural partnership. We need no more than this.

Yeah . . . uh-huh . . . sure . . .

Perhaps you will be so kind as to quote for us, chapter and verse, that passage of scripture which unambiguously states that, at the beginning of time, your boy God unequivocally defined marriage "as between 1 man and 1 woman."

18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him." 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought {them} to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.

21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said, " This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Genesis 2:18-24

I would never want to blow anything up anybody's rear...

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Setanta wrote:

Run 4 fun wrote:

Lastly, at the beginning of time, God define marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman. This excludes homosexuality from the ordained natural partnership. We need no more than this.

Yeah . . . uh-huh . . . sure . . .

Perhaps you will be so kind as to quote for us, chapter and verse, that passage of scripture which unambiguously states that, at the beginning of time, your boy God unequivocally defined marriage "as between 1 man and 1 woman."

Maybe i missed something. I haven't seen an answer to this question. Run 4 Fun, or any of the imaginary friend crowd here, can any of you give me an unambiguous line of scripture which shows that your boy God unequivocally defined marriage "as between 1 man and 1 woman," and that he/she/it did so at the beginning of time?

Or were you perhaps just trying to blow smoke up the collective arse of those in this thread?

Wether it says the word "marriage" or not it was the first marriage (aka lifelong union) between the first human being. In this, God reveals his perfect plan and what is beyond this is a perversion of that plan. I'm not lying...

In this, God reveals his perfect plan