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How long will christians take this???

 
 
xingu
 
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Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 04:47 pm
Setanta wrote:
I don't have Flexner's excellent biography before me in order to quote it, however i recall that Flexner also reports that Washington was a vestryman in Truro parish. If you have a direct quote which you would care to offer, i'd be interested. It is entirely possible that Washington's conscience changed in life--but after he resigned his commission in the Virginia militia in (i believe) 1758, and before the Revolution, he participated in Truro parish as a vestryman.


I could find nothing in Flexner's book about Washington being a vestryman.

Flexner did say this;
Quote:
Washington subscribed to the religious faith of the Enlightenment: like Franklin and Jefferson, he was a Deist. Although not believing in the doctrines of the churches, he was convinced that a devine force, impossible to define, ruled the universe, and that this "Providence" was good. With that passion he now turned for reassurance and guidance to this force is revealed by the inaugural address he delivered with trembling voice and trembling hands on April 30, 1789, to a joint meeting of the houses of Congress. The religious passage took up almost a third of the address.

Speaking not for conventional effect but from the heart, he avoided, as was his deist custom, the word "God." He expressed "my fervent supplication to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect" for assistancein the effort of the American people to find "liberties and happiness" under "a government instituted by themselves." Every step the United States had taken towards becoming "an independent nation," so he coninued, "seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency." The recent creation of a united government through "the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities...cannot be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation ogf the future blessing which the past seem to presage."

From 'Washington: The Indispensable Man' by James Flexner pp 216

Washington was a vestryman from 1762-65, a short break and 1765-84. He was church warden in 1763-4, 66-7, 74-5.
http://www.newrivernotes.com/va/truro1.htm

Being a vestryman doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a Christian. As Flexner said Washington did not believe in the doctrine but he did believe church and religion was necessary for the development of the country. As vestryman he was showing his support for religion; by attending the "desk and pulpit services" he showed his reverence to "The Almighty" and by not taking communion he showed his rejection of celebrating "the Lords Supper" and his disagreement with the churches doctrine.
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Diest TKO
 
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Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2007 09:34 am
If ultimately discussing whether or not characters in american history were christians or deists etc is the means in which we decide if the USA ias founded on Christian principles, then we will get nowhere.

I propose that the USA is built on many principles, many which include but are NOT exclusive to Christian beliefs. Further, those choice christian beliefs are fairly universal arcoss many different religions. Evaluating the roster of who signed the declaration of independance etc to determine this is a much weaker test than simply evaluating the words and actions of the fore fathers.

Being a christian or deist is not mutully exclusive. It is certainly possible for an individual to embrace both. Given the religious climate in early american history, being a Deist then versus being a deist in contemporary times may have looked different.

Philosophers like Thomas Paine wrote a great deal critiquing Christian mythology, but he also was critical of how the christian religion was used as a political tool.

Washington, anyone for that matter would have been able to acknowledge these writings. Is it unreasonable to say that our country is also founded on deistic values?

For what it's worth there is a great deal of overlap in values across all religions. I just never understand why Christians think they get first dibs on claiming these values. Older, now forgotten religions also had a great deal of what is now concidered Christian values, did these old religions have Christian values, before christianity even existed?

Frustration.
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