How long will christians take this???

mesquite wrote:

Why the iniquity of their fathers (and mothers), of course. Feel the love.

For once an atheist gets it right, but if you hadn't quoted the Old Testament you would have made me give you credit for a theological issue you didn't resolve yourself. Nevertheless, it appears that since unlike most skeptics in these philosophical areas, the ones here actually think.

Answering xingu's implying that God is evil for passing sin from parents to child, this has to do with Original Sin. The nature of God expressed in Genesis with respect to Adam's fall is complemented by Jesus' sayings in the gospels regarding God abhoring hypocrisy, mainly in dealing with the Pharisees. If God made His descendants in His image (Genesis 1:27), why wouldn't He make Adam's descendants in his?

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Going back and reading my post... I can't type worth crap. LoL. My hat goes off to the theist and atheist alike that can read what I write.

lol.

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123rock wrote:

mesquite wrote:

Why the iniquity of their fathers (and mothers), of course. Feel the love.

For once an atheist gets it right, but if you hadn't quoted the Old Testament you would have made me give you credit for a theological issue you didn't resolve yourself. Nevertheless, it appears that since unlike most skeptics in these philosophical areas, the ones here actually think.

Thanks 123rock, even the ones not here actually think but this one would not appreciate being called an atheist.

Frank Apisa wrote:

In any case...we have the story (the Bible) of what the god is like. The god is jealous, quick to anger, slow to forgive, vindictive, vengeful, retributive, tyrannical, petty, murderous, barbaric...and who knows what all else.

If you disobey the god...it will visit punishment on you that looks like it came from a Stephen King book filmed by Tarantino.

Read Deuteronomy Chapter 28:15[/u] forward. Read about the curses that go on for paragraph after paragraph. Horrible, horrible stuff. Stuff that should be an embarrassment to anyone not terrified.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1912592#1912592

123rock wrote:

Answering xingu's implying that God is evil for passing sin from parents to child, this has to do with Original Sin. The nature of God expressed in Genesis with respect to Adam's fall is complemented by Jesus' sayings in the gospels regarding God abhoring hypocrisy, mainly in dealing with the Pharisees. If God made His descendants in His image (Genesis 1:27), why wouldn't He make Adam's descendants in his?

That whole "made in our image" thing has always seemed quite a stretch to me. How do you that believe this stuff perceive it? It is hardly reasonable to assume a physical likeness with one that has the ability to create the universe. It must be the personality characteristics that Frank described above. Those certainly are traits capable of being displayed by humans, but hardly the ones I would expect from an all knowing all powerful diety.

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mesquite wrote:

123rock wrote:
Answering xingu's implying that God is evil for passing sin from parents to child, this has to do with Original Sin. The nature of God expressed in Genesis with respect to Adam's fall is complemented by Jesus' sayings in the gospels regarding God abhoring hypocrisy, mainly in dealing with the Pharisees. If God made His descendants in His image (Genesis 1:27), why wouldn't He make Adam's descendants in his?

That whole "made in our image" thing has always seemed quite a stretch to me. How do you that believe this stuff perceive it? It is hardly reasonable to assume a physical likeness with one that has the ability to create the universe. It must be the personality characteristics that Frank described above. Those certainly are traits capable of being displayed by humans, but hardly the ones I would expect from an all knowing all powerful diety.

Looking at the pagan Gods it's evident they had no idea what a God is. They were modeled after humans. The same can be said for the Jewish God. He carries all of the bad traits humans carry. He's vengeful, selfish, jealous and very vain. He demands recognition. He demands praise. He demanded animal sacrifice, and perhaps at one time, human sacrifice.

If he didn't get these he killed. He killed men, women, children, babies and sometimes animals. Even in the New Testament one of those who will end up in the Lake of Fire are the unbelievers.

The Bible says God loves humans but if we are to observe God's behavior I think God loves himself more than humans.

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mesquite wrote:

123rock wrote:
Answering xingu's implying that God is evil for passing sin from parents to child, this has to do with Original Sin. The nature of God expressed in Genesis with respect to Adam's fall is complemented by Jesus' sayings in the gospels regarding God abhoring hypocrisy, mainly in dealing with the Pharisees. If God made His descendants in His image (Genesis 1:27), why wouldn't He make Adam's descendants in his?

That whole "made in our image" thing has always seemed quite a stretch to me. How do you that believe this stuff perceive it? It is hardly reasonable to assume a physical likeness with one that has the ability to create the universe. It must be the personality characteristics that Frank described above. Those certainly are traits capable of being displayed by humans, but hardly the ones I would expect from an all knowing all powerful diety.

Made in His image I've always taken to mean free will. Animals have emotions as well. I often question the stuff that I think up. You could argue that being made in God's image, and God not being a hypocrit is another "Christian copout," or the NT authors had someone as full of it as me so he put in words in Jesus' mouth talking against hypocrisy, but if you examine the Ten Commandments, honoring your parents somehow doesn't seem to have the universal value of: no murder, no theft, no lie, no envy, etc. If you think about it, you could almost swear it's Moses having problems with his kids. But if God's children are to honor him, why wouldn't there be a commandment for children to honor their parents?

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xingu wrote:

Looking at the pagan Gods it's evident they had no idea what a God is. They were modeled after humans. The same can be said for the Jewish God. He carries all of the bad traits humans carry. He's vengeful, selfish, jealous and very vain. He demands recognition. He demands praise. He demanded animal sacrifice, and perhaps at one time, human sacrifice.

If he didn't get these he killed. He killed men, women, children, babies and sometimes animals. Even in the New Testament one of those who will end up in the Lake of Fire are the unbelievers.

The Bible says God loves humans but if we are to observe God's behavior I think God loves himself more than humans.

It would be nice to back up your claims with evidence instead of chanting atheist heaven.

If you want an historical example of gods being made in people's images look at ancient Greek mythology. Then read the Bible and compare and see the difference. If the Jewish God were an image of the people, why are all these "feel-good" things banned, such as fornication, and why can't we tell a lie? Not very convenient to keep a population under control. Please point to all that you feel is inconsistencies in God's character so that I can explain the verses to you. I don't suppose you have a better alternative than Hell for committing a sin against a perfect God, and yes animal sacrifices (only) were used to cover (not forgive) sin until Christ's ultimate sacrifice came. The only time that I know of that a human was sacrificed was when a general promised God he'd sacrifice to Him the first thing that he saw when he went home. Since in those days the houses' first floor was pretty much an animal storage, he was expecting something like a goat/lamb. Instead, his daughter showed up to greet him.

God loving Himself more? I don't know, would you give up your life for someone? Then again, if Jesus is God He'd know He's immortal and all, so I guess the question could be restated as, "Would God give up His existence so that we don't go to Hell?" or something like that. I think the biblical answer is yes, but it might be a big fat no.

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123rock wrote:

If you want an historical example of gods being made in people's images look at ancient Greek mythology.

What do you think I meant when I said;

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Looking at the pagan Gods it's evident they had no idea what a God is. They were modeled after humans.

Are you going to tell me the Greeks and Romans were not pagans?

123rock wrote:

If the Jewish God were an image of the people, why are all these "feel-good" things banned, such as fornication, and why can't we tell a lie? Not very convenient to keep a population under control.

Fornication was not banned unless you are going to tell me the Jews propagated themselves through virgin births.
Establishing strict rules unique to your tribe and enforcing strict loyalty to a unique God or religious order is a very good way to maintains control of a group of people. It is a way to separate us from them.

When I say the Jews made God in their own image I didn't mean they had to be promiscuous. Look at God's behavior in the Bible. He has all of the very worse attributes of the most evil humans. He has far more in common with a Stalin or Hitler than an open-minded, tolerant freedom loving human. Fear is also an excellent way to maintain population control.

Your God does not believe in freedom of religion, tolerance, an open mind or free will.
He believes killing people, whole populations, is the best solution for any problem.
He is vain and demands to be recognized and praised, like a pagan God. If not he will rant, rave and kill.
He is jealous, petty, selfish, vengeful and murderous.
He is a hypocrite. He tells humans not to murder, or kill, and tells them to murder and kill.

All of this can be found in the Bible. If you don't see this than I guess you have not read the Bible or else you try to dismiss it with some lame excuse, as if there's nothing wrong with God behaving in a manner we would ever tolerate among humans.

And that is called a double standard.

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xingu wrote:

Fornication was not banned unless you are going to tell me the Jews propagated themselves through virgin births.

I guess you think fornication=sex, whereas it is premarital sex

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When I say the Jews made God in their own image I didn't mean they had to be promiscuous. Look at God's behavior in the Bible. He has all of the very worse attributes of the most evil humans. He has far more in common with a Stalin or Hitler than an open-minded, tolerant freedom loving human. Fear is also an excellent way to maintain population control.

Maybe you should cite these incidences so I can explain them for the 50th time.

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Your God does not believe in freedom of religion, tolerance, an open mind or free will.

Freedom of religion..no, unless you want to tell me that your personal morality should be the standard comparison, I don't see why it should. Tolerance, yes, read Matthew x Mad

, open mind, read 2 Timothy 3:16, free will, sure, why do you think people are gonna go to Hell according to the Bible?

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He believes killing people, whole populations, is the best solution for any problem.

If you are to browse around you'll find out you're a little late on that one.

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He is vain and demands to be recognized and praised, like a pagan God. If not he will rant, rave and kill.

He doesn't kill for something that He wants, He just wants your repentance without which you can't be saved.

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He is jealous, petty, selfish, vengeful and murderous.

Right. If you're referring to the infamous, "I am a jealous God," verse, try learning about ancient mediterranean cultures. Petty and selfish, maybe your personal desires, but I don't see how, especially when He sent His only Son to die for us.

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He is a hypocrite. He tells humans not to murder, or kill, and tells them to murder and kill.

Nice repetition.

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All of this can be found in the Bible. If you don't see this than I guess you have not read the Bible or else you try to dismiss it with some lame excuse, as if there's nothing wrong with God behaving in a manner we would ever tolerate among humans.

And that is called a double standard.

No, it shows you haven't read this thread. I think what's a lame excuse is bringing up the same argument 50 million times while whining so that you can pass over argument by emotion, aka argument by outrage.

Please try again.

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Diest wrote:

Going back and reading my post... I can't type worth crap. LoL. My hat goes off to the theist and atheist alike that can read what I write.

Hmm...

Raises a point when it comes to understanding.

Theist: "I can read this. Just use my imagination to fill in the blanks".

Atheist: "Nope. That's a load of crap."

And now I am curious to see how this will be read...

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123rock wrote:

xingu wrote:
Your God does not believe in freedom of religion, tolerance, an open mind or free will.

Freedom of religion..no, unless you want to tell me that your personal morality should be the standard comparison, I don't see why it should. Tolerance, yes . . .

Huh?

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echi wrote:

123rock wrote:
xingu wrote:
Your God does not believe in freedom of religion, tolerance, an open mind or free will.

Freedom of religion..no, unless you want to tell me that your personal morality should be the standard comparison, I don't see why it should. Tolerance, yes . . .

Huh?

Poor rock doesn't make much sense in his replies.

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xingu wrote:

echi wrote:
123rock wrote:
xingu wrote:
Your God does not believe in freedom of religion, tolerance, an open mind or free will.

Freedom of religion..no, unless you want to tell me that your personal morality should be the standard comparison, I don't see why it should. Tolerance, yes . . .

Huh?

Poor rock doesn't make much sense in his replies.

I was thinking the same thing.

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has eorl changed his avatar to a picture of a dog's anus???

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The Pentacle Queen wrote:

has eorl changed his avatar to a picture of a dog's anus???

Yup, looks that way. Is he trying to tell us something?

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It was an April 1 day thing. Look closely.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2591997#2591997

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maporsche wrote:

xingu wrote:
echi wrote:
123rock wrote:
xingu wrote:
Your God does not believe in freedom of religion, tolerance, an open mind or free will.

Freedom of religion..no, unless you want to tell me that your personal morality should be the standard comparison, I don't see why it should. Tolerance, yes . . .

Huh?

Poor rock doesn't make much sense in his replies.

I was thinking the same thing.

I don't know why God should allow a freedom of religion especially when it's contradictory to the nature of truth, and the biblical God is a God of truth. Your argument by outrage seems to stem from your malleability to popular culture, in this case legal notions; man's laws replacing God's. Thus, unless you can show me why your personal notion of morality should override the Bible's, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

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123rock wrote:

I don't know why God should allow a freedom of religion especially when it's contradictory to the nature of truth, and the biblical God is a God of truth.

Perhaps if you use a little common sense you would see the stupidity of your argument.

If you look at your history you will see why freedom of religion is so vital if we want to live in a world free from religious persecution. Have you not heard of the Inquisition? Have you not heard of the Holocaust? Have you not heard of the Teliban?

What kind of America would you want, one run by Biblical law rather than the Constitution? Which Christian religion should dictate God's law, the Catholics, Mormons, SDA, Jehovah's Witness, Southern Baptist?

What do you do with those who use their free will and choose not to believe; behave like God and kill them the way the Catholic reared Hitler, Gobbels and Himmler did the Jews?

We have a separation of church and state because of the barbaric nature of religion, especially conservative religion. Our Founding Fathers, some of whom were not Christian but Deist, saw this religious persecution in the Catholic Church and the Puritans. They did not want to have a country in which religion would become a persecuting force that would destroy liberty.

Yet you say your God wants this. He hates religious freedom. He want's us to persecute the unbelievers. He must because if you read the Bible he has ordered his "chosen" to slaughter the unbelievers. Even in the Book of Revelation he will cast the unbelievers into the Lake of Fire.

What your saying is what the American Teliban have been saying; that this nation was founded on the evil principle of religious freedom; a principle your Biblical God hates.

What better example of what America would be like under what your God wants than to look at Afghanistan under the Teliban.

How can anyone look at God in the Bible and call him wise and just when he exhibits his hate, distain and contempt for what we believe is one of the greatest virtues of our nation, allowing people to believe without persecution.

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xingu wrote:

Our Founding Fathers, some of whom were not Christian but Deist

Not many were Deist, only a very few. I am not convinced that you could document as many as 4 out of over 50 signers as being Deist.

As you probably remember, I have asked for documentation of these types of claims previously, and it has not been forthcoming.

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real life wrote:

xingu wrote:
Our Founding Fathers, some of whom were not Christian but Deist

Not many were Deist, only a very few. I am not convinced that you could document as many as 4 out of over 50 signers as being Deist.

As you probably remember, I have asked for documentation of these types of claims previously, and it has not been forthcoming.

Go on the internet and find them for yourself real. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

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How long will christians take this???

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