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More Clear Thinking From Ann Coulter

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 10:29 am
I think that people with good sense would fear the religious right, and demonize them as much as possible. This is because the religious right is dedicated to tearing down the wall between church and state. I believe that Coulter is, at the least, an associate member of the religious right.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 12:38 pm
I believe that by fearing them we empower them.
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 02:13 pm
I figger Ann Coulter will eventually self-implode. How long can anyone last being so hateful without some kind of downfall?
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nimh
 
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Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 02:30 pm
No offense, but I think the religious right has been the most overhyped threat in this decade's US politics.

Think about it. What three basic pillars of support and ideology have the Bush administrations leant on?

  • the tax-cutting, corporate-friendly, corruption-tolerant, free market ideologues and big business pals

  • the war-starting, executive power-entrenching, overreaching neoconservatives who were going to change the world in America's image by force

  • the evangelical, puritan, culture war-fighting religious right with its obsession with abortion and gay marriage.
For sure, each constituency has tolerated or even approved of the actions of the the others, brought together in their common pragmatic grab for power and shared distaste for anything liberal. But they're still the three easily identifiable separate strands of Bushism.

OK, now ask yourself: which of these three strands has had the most influence, these past six years? Which of them succeeded best in getting their pet laws and policies pushed through? Which of the three has best succeeded in changing America in its own image? And which the worst?

Face it: of the three, the religious right is the strand that got shafted. The highest ranking pol they got in Bush's admin was Ashcroft, and he dissappeared halfway through. Theres been hardly any change on abortion. Their agenda has come to be symbolised by the Schiavo debacle, which made Frist and the lot look foolish, and which they even lost, too. The only notch they can carve is the state referendums they won on gay marriage, and many of them were only symbolic anyhow.

The Bush era will forever be identified by Iraq and the monumental failure their of the neoconservative project. Once withdrawal from there ensues, however, the Bush era feature that will turn out to have had the most far-reaching impact in the US will be the huge, ideologically-inspired tax cut bonanza giveaway to the richest, and the deregulation of whole chunks of what remained of the government's ability to check market abuses that came with it. The religious right's agenda, on the other hand? As long as you're not gay, it's been a mere, and rather comical, blip on the radar.

And now the new presidential elections are going to come up and they are already rubbing the religious right's impotence into its face, confronting them with probably having to swallow RudyMcRomney for '08.

Its almost enough to start feeling sorry for them.
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Advocate
 
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Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 05:23 pm
nimh, the religious right wasn't shafted -- it just lost, luckily for the country, a lot of battles due to the courts.

The constitution does set up a wall between church and state. And the courts are there, hopefully, to protect that wall.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 07:23 pm
snood wrote:
Damn, okie. This is one for the books. I think I agreed with everything in your last post.


Thanks, snood, for saying so.

Let me say I think you and certain others have misjudged me here all along.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2007 07:59 pm
nimh wrote:
No offense, but I think the religious right has been the most overhyped threat in this decade's US politics.


Way overhyped, and I fail to understand the extreme left's fear of it.

I think really it is born out of a resentment of any shackles or moral expectations placed on them. Religious figures that have gone political are not considered good political timber by anyone that I know, although they have their following, but for the most part, people that are religious and want to see a moral standard in this country will vote for political leaders that they identify with, that they judge to be moral, but this is not an effort to turn the country into some kind of forced religious government.

Didn't Pat Robertson run for president in 1988, and received some initial support, but faded quickly, and I doubt he would get 1% of the vote now. I think most religious people recognize such people for being a bit whacked out, but that does not cancel out the fact that most people see a need for morality and social structure to survive the culture war against it.

Religious people have as much right to vote for the way they want society to look as much as the leftists do. After all, we are all in this together, and everyone's tax dollars go to fix social and cultural problems that spring out of cultural moral standards.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 07:30 am
Gala wrote:
How long can anyone last being so hateful without some kind of downfall?


I wonder that every day when I read many of the posts here.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 06:31 am
McGentrix wrote:
Gala wrote:
How long can anyone last being so hateful without some kind of downfall?


I wonder that every day when I read many of the posts here.


I don't know that it is 'hatred' so much as a visceral discomfort many of us experience in seeing your lip gloss spread so thickly around this president's sphincter. That McGentrix. What a faggot.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 07:05 am
blatham wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Gala wrote:
How long can anyone last being so hateful without some kind of downfall?


I wonder that every day when I read many of the posts here.


I don't know that it is 'hatred' so much as a visceral discomfort many of us experience in seeing your lip gloss spread so thickly around this president's sphincter. That McGentrix. What a faggot.



I think you have stepped over the line here blatham by suggesting that McGentrix would do something like that. We all know he has bad knees. Please apologize.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 07:45 am
I'll need to see a note from one of his medical practitioners. Whichever one he isn't blowing.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 07:48 am
(ps.... in case it is lost on anyone...and it definitely will be... this is Coulter discourse. Isn't it uplifting?)
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 07:53 am
Quote:
A few newspapers have dropped her column, and some GOP presidential candidates condemned her statement -- who cares? As should be amply clear by now, there is virtually nothing that Ann Coulter can do that will cause her to be cast out of the bosom of the American right. And even if she was to lose her head and cross a line that even she can't cross -- calling Obama a "nigger" is about the only thing that would do the trick -- a thousand hissing Coulters would spring up to take her place.

For this isn't really about Coulter at all. This is about a pact the American right made with the devil, a pact the devil is now coming to collect on. American conservatism sold its soul to the Coulters and Limbaughs of the world to gain power, and now that its ideology has been exposed as empty and its leadership incompetent and corrupt, free-floating hatred is the only thing it has to offer. The problem, for the GOP, is that this isn't a winning political strategy anymore -- but they're stuck with it. They're trapped. They need the bigoted and reactionary base they helped create, but the very fanaticism that made the True Believers such potent shock troops will prevent the Republicans from achieving Karl Rove's dream of long-term GOP domination.

It is a truism that American politics is won in the middle. For a magic moment, helped immeasurably by 9/11, the GOP was able to convince just enough centrist Americans that extremists like Coulter and Limbaugh did in fact share their values. But the spell has worn off, and they have been exposed as the vacuous bottom-feeders that they are.

It will be objected that Coulter, Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage and their ilk are just the lunatic fringe of a respectable movement. But in what passes for conservatism today, the lunatic fringe is respectable. In the surreal parade of Bush administration follies and sins, one singularly telling one has gone almost entirely unremarked: Vice President Dick Cheney has appeared several times on Rush Limbaugh's radio show. Think about this: The holder of the second-highest office in the land has repeatedly chummed it up with a factually challenged right-wing hack, a pathetic figure only marginally less creepy than Coulter. Imagine the reaction if Al Gore, when he was vice president, had routinely appeared on a radio show hosted by, say, Ward Churchill. (The comparison is feeble: There really is no left-wing equivalent of Limbaugh, just as there is no left-wing equivalent of Father Coughlin or Joe McCarthy.) The entire American political system would melt down. Beltway wise men would trip on their penny loafers in their haste to demand Gore's head. Robert Bork would come out of retirement to call for a coup to restore the caliphate, I mean the Judeo-Christian moral law in America. Yet the grotesque Cheney-Limbaugh love-in doesn't raise an eyebrow. We're so inured to the complete convergence of "respectable" conservatism and reactionary talk-radio ravings that we don't even deem it worthy of comment.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/03/13/coulter/
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:21 am
Interesting article, blatham. I imagine it comes to no surprise that I agree completely it.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2007 05:16 pm
An alternate take.. basically elaborating on what ebrown has been saying here. He's got a point, especially from the fifth paragraph (in the shortened version below) onward.

Quote:
Why liberals should keep complaining about Ann Coulter

by Ben Adler
TNR Online
03.16.07

The intra-liberal squabbles over Ann Coulter are back. Coulter, speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) on March 2, 2007 (after being given a warm introduction by GOP presidential contender Mitt Romney) said, "I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word 'faggot.'" Her comment was greeted with laughter from the crowd.

When the blogosphere erupted in horror, high-minded liberal commentators argued that we'd all be smarter to ignore Coulter and her shenanigans than to dignify them with a response. [..]

Of course they're right that Coulter is a publicity hound--more performance artist than public intellectual. And engaging her extremist policy stances, like her assertion (in her syndicated column) that "the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantánamo," risks legitimizing them. But Alterman and others are wrong to pretend she doesn't exist. In fact, liberals should count their lucky stars that they have her, and they should publicize her every outrage [..].

Consider how it looks to moderate voters that a homophobic, anti-Arab zealot is so widely revered on the right. Her books sell hundreds of thousands of copies, she is praised by prominent Republicans, and she is welcomed at their events. When liberals highlight the bigoted or outlandish things she says, it is decidedly to their political advantage--reinforcing the queasiness that tolerant suburban swing voters feel about aligning with the right.

Conservatives don't seem to suffer from the same hesitancy that some liberals do to tar their opponents by blaming them for everything a controversial figure on their side says. Consider the case of Michael Moore. Moore, like Coulter, is brash and politically pugnacious; his films are widely watched and enjoyed on the left, though, as with Coulter, many of the more moderate members of his movement find him too strident. But the conservative pundits constantly try to paint the entire left as sharing every view that Moore holds.

For instance, the site www.rightwingnews.com named Moore the second-most-annoying liberal in America in 2003 and catalogued his offenses. [Moreover,] all of his views were imputed to the left: "Michael Moore is perhaps the most beloved figure of the American left," the site said.

And it probably works. Many conservative commentators speculated that Hollywood liberals actually cost John Kerry votes in 2004 because regular Americans were turned off by Fahrenheit 9/11. [..] William J. Bennett claimed, "[W]hen Michael Moore was given a seat in a presidential box at the Democratic convention, people took note of those values as well--and voted on them." While it's hard to pinpoint a specific cause for Kerry's loss, it's certainly clear that conservatives have, at the very least, nothing to lose--and, most likely, a good deal to gain--when they demonize the left for every inappropriate or controversial remark a liberal makes.

Indeed, conservatives have been clever enough to realize that a target doesn't even need to really be a liberal--much less command a major following on the left or endorse the Democratic candidate--to effectively smear Democrats. The conservative blog Patterico.com, compiled "examples of hate speech by prominent leftist figures" that included Louis Farrakhan, who has as little influence on the mainstream left as David Duke does on the mainstream right. Or consider right-wing activist and author David Horowitz's Discover the Networks website, which catalogues "activists for leftwing agendas and causes" and includes absurdly marginal, illiberal figures like Sami Al Arian and Amiri Baraka. This sort of stunt helps drum up donations and support for Horowitz's advocacy group. Why shouldn't liberals do the same? [..]

Luckily, best-selling right-wing authors and activists who give speeches at the Heritage Foundation make plenty of outrageous statements. Whether it's Michelle Malkin's argument in defense of interning Japanese-Americans during World War II, Coulter's defense of Joseph McCarthy, or anti-affirmative-action crusader Ward Connerly's acceptance of support from the Ku Klux Klan, liberals have plenty of material without having to make things up. And they should be willing to use it.

--------------
Ben Adler is the editor of CampusProgress.org at the Center for American Progress. The views expressed here are his own.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2007 06:38 pm
I wager she has never been on a date in her life.

BTW, has anyone heard any new developments regarding her tax and election-fraud problems? I thought that she would be in jail by now.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 04:12 am
As I read Adler and came to "high minded liberals", I wondered if he might be speaking of Alterman. Actually, Alterman is the only liberal I've read who argued for ignoring Coulter and that's not an irrational stance (the "any publicity is good publicity" cliche has some truth to it). It seems likely, after all, that Coulter purposefully added "faggot" this year, just as she used "raghead" last year, precisely to cause a stir and keep her name/face up front for the marketing benefits. Her schtick has made her a lot of money and she'll keep doing it. It isn't really that Alterman is being "high-minded" here (though the term fits him in other ways, notably respect for scholarship protocols) as he is making a pragmatic case.

The less reflective (and less ethical) folks on the right who argue here that Coulter is just tweaking liberal noses because they deserve it and because it ends up being better for the whole community if liberal notions/values are placed in the spotlight for examination are missing what is going on. Coulter has no intention of speaking to liberals or 'educating' liberals...she speaks only to this band of poorly educated and easy-answer-seeking folks in the modern right because they are the only people who buy her books or pay to hear her speak.

Both strategies, Adler's or Alterman's, make sense. Adler's has the advantage of acknowledging the "street fight" nature of modern american discourse (rules be damned...power is everything) while Alterman's pushes in the direction of ignoring loud and essentially silly distractions so that the really effective work of investigation, reporting and activism might get done.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 04:50 am
Locally weve gotten into the "counter Coulter" a bit. Our Lancaster papers have joined the few whove dropped her columns. The really surprising thing was the overall positive response to this ed decsion from the majority of readers whove written in. Now Lancaster County is one of the "Alabama" districts of Pennsylvania, isolated from the politically progressive areas of the Philly and Pittsburgh , and the PEnn State klaverns . Lancaster is decidedly conservative , but apparently not of the "set our hair on-fire" conservatives. The responses in the letters to the editor in both Lancaster papers has been decidely supportive of dumping her. She had little overall support and , as most of the Conservative side stated, "she was usually an embarrasment to my beliefs" or "she concentrated on all the ways that would divide us rather than focusing on the meat of issues". These comments from Pa GOPers, harkens back to the Eisenhower branch of the party, where fiscal conservatism meant an actual practice not merely a different menu. Coulter is still printed in the SCranton Times and a number of others , but Lancaster and York Counties are true leadership nodes of Pa conservatism, so dropping Ms Coulter from these papers is really a sea change.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 05:19 am
farmerman

Well, that's nothing but welcome news. In a lecture he gave a couple of years ago at The London School of Economics, Krugman referenced a study done by two economists who compared the bills passed in the Eisenhower administration to those of the Clinton administration. They "measured" the two against some set of "left/right" criteria and found that the Eisenhower administration had been more left in orientation than was the Clinton admistration. That certainly fits my sense of drift and, in many ways, I'd welcome a return to that earlier era.

The last I checked (media matters covers this) Coulter had been dropped by nine newspapers.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 05:36 am
Coulter is one of those writers whose contributions could just as easily fit within The National Lampoon without missing a beat.


Pa is constantly embracing the Eisenhower admin as representative of an "adopted son" , since we have the distinction of having our only other President , James Buchanan,voted hands down by those in the business to rate presidents , as the worst president in our nations hisory.

(GW isnt eligible for Hall of Fame status yet)
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