Studying Europe's Muslim terrorists

not sure how you mean that dag...do you agree with me, or are you shocked that I am such an islamophobe?

Today the trial begins of muslim extremists who tried to blow up glasgow airport, and night clubs in London.

Let me re iterate. I am not against the man. I'm not against his ethnic or cultural identity. I'm against the dangerous ideas he holds in his head. In this case its a religion called Islam.

Yes, I was shocked, as you probably know already.

Quite right. All religions make exactly the same sense to me. Some happen to be less pleasing than others, but neither more nor less sensible.

that i can agree with, rog. but i don't see islam any less sensible than christianity or whatever else. have you seen "religulous" i'll post a link on videos of the day.

that said, i have many good friends, both muslims and christians, who are sensible and good people, and i respect their opinions.

Well I didnt but I do now. I'm against bad ideas. Bad ideas cause bad actions. Islam is a set of ideas...purely an abstract set of concepts, like scientology or nazism. We all know its rubbish and can be dangerous but most people are too polite to say so because they dont want to give offence. I think the situation is too serious to bother about giving offence and its time to speak plainly.

and you're speaking...your OPINION, stated as if it was facts. 's ok, i'll just move on. we've been down this path before.

do you respect the islamic view of the role of women, about homosexuality, genital mutilation and creationism? You respect their views, and thats fine. Do you think for one moment your tolerance is reciprocated?

some things are facts Dag. How old is the earth?

ask the christians or the jews. i myself don't care.

I accept the implication of your remark...that I have an unreasonable antipathy towards Islam. But then its my belief Islam has an unreasonable antipathy towards the rest of the world, which is not found in Judaism or Christianity or any other world religion for that matter.

you want to hate, go ahead, select away. i will not stand in your way.

I hate the evil men do, not the man. And the ideas he carries around in his head which cause him to commit such hateful acts.

and in this case, lest there be any misunderstanding, the hateful ideas stem from islam.

ok so you think i'm a bigot and possibly a racist

well you are wrong.

I have every right to hate ideas which are themselves hateful.

And islam, especially in its relation to jews, displays the most appalling racism.

you have every right to think whatever you desire.

and i have every right to form an opinion about that...whether you like my opinion or not.

btw, you are equating islamic fundamentalism with islam...there is a whole wide world of islam, diverse and complex, out there.

How do you distinguish between them? Here we have just had two doctors involved in trying to kill as many people as possible at Glasgow Airport. Islam is nonsense, or at least it makes no sense to me. If it was harmless nonsense, I would leave it at that, but its not. The militants, fundamentalists, jihadists, call them what you will, take their inspiration from Islam. They justify what they do by Islam. And Islam provides the reward in paradise. Its for Islam to put its house in order, not for me to worry about speaking plainly in case I upset religious sensibilities.

Of course its true that most followers of Islam are peaceable citizens. But it would be nice if terrorist outrages were condemned by the the imans as specifically un-Islamic, instead of just agreeing its a criminal act. How many suicide bombers would be deterred if terrorists and murderers were told to expect the wrath of Allah in the afterlife, rather than a glorious reception into Paradise? Why does Islam not teach this?

How do you differ doctors' religion? Are they labelled in the UK, like we did with the yellow star for the Jews?

how do you distinguish between a lunatic and a normal person? if you can't, then there's no need to go further. if you can, well.... why even ask.

how many Muslim friends do you have, steve? I have quite a few, some of them are in Birmingham and London. Perfectly normal decent and kind people, working and raising families. They would certainly not agree with much of what you write, and neither do I. Islam is meaningful and crucial to them, yet they don't go around killing anyone nor do they support it. In fact they are deeply troubled by it as it triggers reactions like yours.

If some followers of Islam are judged to be murderous terrorists, it is irrational to assume that all followers of Islam are murderous terrorists. If most followers of Islam are judged to be peaceful people, it is irrational to assume that all followers of Islam are peaceful people and/or that none are murderous terrorists.

Steve has taken neither irrational position.

There is no denying, however, that a great deal, if not most, terrorism in the world today has its roots in militant Islamic fundamentalism.

If I am hearing him right, Steve's position is that if Islam put as much public emphasis on denouncing terrorism and condemning its proponents to serious judgment as it does in promising heavenly rewards to those who do violence in obedience to Allah, perhaps Islamic terrorism would fall largely out of favor with most Muslims everywhere. Christianity did that and as a result Christian terrorism has become an infrequent and relatively small scale thing that is soundly and publiclly condemned by the vast majority of Christians everywhere.

Steve's position is entirely rational on that point.

I only know one person of Turkish origin who is from a Muslim background. He stresses how he is not particularly religious

meanwhile, right on cue, another idiot brainwashed by Islam tries to kill restaurant diners



Note the man was a convert. It was Islam that turned him into a potential mass murderer. He would not have been a suicide bomber without Islam. He was not a convert to Buddhism or Judaism.