Studying Europe's Muslim terrorists

And that's something totally different.

What 'race' is it, btw?

Is that a trick question? Semitic. Arabs and Persians and there may be some others.

Nothing tricky at all: more than 90% of the Muslims here (about 3 million) are Turkish. We like them (generally) - and their country.

Not sure what 'race' that is (we don't differ people by races, besides those terrible 33 years some 70 years ago) but they are whatever Eurasian.

mctag wrote :



not only in spain from what i recall - unless you include central-america .
wouldn't want to count how many people were killed in the name of the christian religion and islam - both numbers would be pretty gruesome .

in canada many modern muslims have become quite outspoken about the faults of certain interpretations of islam that are harmful to every one .
many muslims have appeared on TV - and written in newspapers - about the excesses and wrong interpretations of the koran . there have been some VERY lively debates !
we have met a muslim woman who is a sort of crusader for a true and non-violent islamism . she is not popular with all muslims but has not given up her fight to bring islam and muslim women into the modern age .
she has lived in canada for many years and when we met her at a friend's house at a dinnerparty i had the true pleasure of sitting next to her and talk to her . i certainly would not have been able to tell that she is a muslim unless i'd read her newspaper article first (and knew her point of view) .
we have plenty of extremists of all religious groups : muslim , sikh , christian ... i hope no group is insulted by being left out .

all EXTREMES are harmful imo .
hbg

those are races? not that it's terribly important, just another point in the case of futileness of this conversation.

Cesarewich, that's a race.

Arabs, semitic, that's a race.

Persians, Indo-European I think, that's another race.

ummm, not really. it's not as straightforward as that at all.

Well, what am I, a geneticist?

As the Scots say "We're a' Jock Tamson's bairns".

No, of course you're not a genetist....these things just sometimes cut way too close to someone's heart is all.

Race is a silly construct. Anything more defined than the classification of 'species' can not be scientifically differentiated. The only things that separate races are superficial. If you want to distinguish people by culturally distinct behaviors, attitudes, laws, etc, you're talking about ethnicity or regionalism.

and even those categories should be treated with some complexity and multiperspectivity. but those are usually far less convenient.

Eeyep. And we haven't even begun to address religion!

i guess it goes for just about anything. the method of inquiry very much determines what we learn (or not learn)

Well typed!

I'm all for multiperspectivity.

I heard yesterday about a 13 year old girl who was stoned to death in Somalia. Her "crime" was that of being raped. She was crying, but "the will of Allah" must be done.

No one has called me a racist, but it seems the charge of "islamophobia" is almost as bad. But if a phobia is an irrational fear, there is nothing irrational about fearing religious ideas that inspire devotees to stone young girls to death, plant bombs on the underground and to murder apostates homosexuals and artists.

if you're so sure of your positions, why so defensive?

Actually, there's a lot more to complain about going on in Somalia - and I have some or some doubts that European Muslims are really involved there.


On another note: in Dortmund, the first Muslim owned brewery is planned (Dortmund has [had?] the highest concentration of breweries in Germany over centuries]:


Homepage


There range of products actually mirror what is 'in' with the beer-drinking under 30-generation here - no wonder, they tested their products (now brewed in/at ... guess where, Steve? ) at Dortmund University.

Meanwhile, Tariq Ramadan is visiting the Pope and Christian-Muslim coalition of spiritual leaders has been formed to work towards understanding and tolerance. German imams are offered education on German political system and culture, and a large mosque has been opened in Essen (? I think) without any protests, in fact was supported by the local Christian community.

.... I mean, as long as we're playing the "let me select one case" game -- there are good stories, too. Like I said, we can play these ad nausea. Except these above are actually from Europe.

Duisburg it was - but the town doesn't really matter. Affiliated (though inside the mosque's building) is an intercultural- and interreligious center: used by the neighbouring Catholic and Evangelical parishes from the first day onwards.