1
   

Air America Crashes Burns Franken prematurely ejectulates...

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 11:46 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Did someone really write off Conservative radio as not a serious source for news while promoting Jon Stewart for same? Laughing I only heard Franken once (when a hurricane knocked out power, so my choices were limited) and he sounded every bit a hyper-partisan fool as Rush Limbaugh. When it comes to news, I prefer news, thank you.


Your assumptions here bill aren't going to be borne out if you check further. Franken has, for example, now completed five or six separate tours to Iraq to entertain the troops. The differences between Limbaugh and him are far greater than that single matter, but that matter is telliing.

As regards "news" and Jon Stewart... of course, what Stewart does is satiric commentary on contemporary political issues and people. Now, if it is your contention that Monty Python or Mark Twain or Will Rogers or Mencken have nothing valuable to teach you/us about political matters, then ok, but I'd urge against such self-deprivation.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 11:51 am
No, I find him quite amusing... but I find using him as an example of news amusing as well.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 12:36 pm
Well, you are correct in that there is a differentiation to be made between factual information and commentary on the presumed significance to citizens of that information.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 01:02 pm
blatham wrote:

As regards "news" and Jon Stewart... of course, what Stewart does is satiric commentary on contemporary political issues and people. Now, if it is your contention that Monty Python or Mark Twain or Will Rogers or Mencken have nothing valuable to teach you/us about political matters, then ok, but I'd urge against such self-deprivation.



I'm no regular listener of any commentator - those cited above or Limbaugh. However, I have heard enough to know that the description above could be applied to Rush Limbaugh just as accurately as it was to those cited above. The only difference is in the particular prejudices brought to the question by the commentators on this thread.

I find the sweeping generalizations about the supposed different tastes and discretion of Liberals and Conservatives quite laughably absurd, and, in several cases, unworthy of their A2K authors.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 01:27 pm
This IS funny.

I like to read back to some of our comments way back when and see how progostications pan out.

Air America was hailed as the most wonderful thing since bread--and Franken was poised by a few of our notable liberals as an up and coming star of liberal radio to ride the crest of a great liberal surge.....

It doesn't matter --the date of my entry---Just the facts.

The hysterical one-sided comments were a trip, though. Laughing You need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid, crazy people!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 01:51 pm
Green Witch wrote:
Liberal and conservatives do not want information presented the same way. Conservatives seems to love a father figure telling them how to think, telling them the stories of the world and interpreting the events for them. The tone is overall negative and bullying. "We're right, they're wrong PERIOD"- isn't is all safe and secure that way. Don't like the results?- just deny them (global warming, civil war in Iraq, poverty in America etc). When things go bad, just remember God loves us best, Jesus is coming soon. Al Franken made the mistake of thinking he could talk like this to the liberal audience and I know I was turned off, the tone of AA was too much like conservative radio.

Actually, I don't think he made this mistake. At least not in the beginning. In its early days, Air America had a lot of interesting guests, and its hosts were not fake authority. The tone was more or less conversational. It was afterwards that its shows gradually morphed into a mirror image of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

To this outside observer, it looks as if they moved to the now-failed "out-Rush Rush" concept because "radio by grown-ups for grown-ups" worked even worse. That's actually the most depressing part. It greatly dampens my optimism that if they had to NPR and PBS could stand on their own feet financially.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 04:04 pm
Thomas wrote:
Actually, I don't think he made this mistake. At least not in the beginning. In its early days, Air America had a lot of interesting guests, and its hosts were not fake authority. The tone was more or less conversational. It was afterwards that its shows gradually morphed into a mirror image of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

To this outside observer, it looks as if they moved to the now-failed "out-Rush Rush" concept because "radio by grown-ups for grown-ups" worked even worse. That's actually the most depressing part. It greatly dampens my optimism that if they had to NPR and PBS could stand on their own feet financially.


Then how do you explain Franken's failure to attract & hold a sufficently large audience? Perhaps the "mirror image" into which he morphed wasn't as attractive as the ones (Limbaugh, O'reilly) you suggest he was copying.

I am always skeptical of claims that companies that fail did so because of their customers, or that writers, musicians, entertainers or even political spokesmen & commentators (even satirists) failed because their audience wasn't worthy of their talents.

The fact is that Franken exuded a certain bitter and vindictive quality that is less present in the material of his more successful competitors. I believe it was the degree to which he took himself so seriously, while often bitterly mocking the views of his opponents that led to his failure.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 04:07 pm
Thomas wrote:
Actually, I don't think he made this mistake. At least not in the beginning. In its early days, Air America had a lot of interesting guests, and its hosts were not fake authority. The tone was more or less conversational. It was afterwards that its shows gradually morphed into a mirror image of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

To this outside observer, it looks as if they moved to the now-failed "out-Rush Rush" concept because "radio by grown-ups for grown-ups" worked even worse. That's actually the most depressing part. It greatly dampens my optimism that if they had to NPR and PBS could stand on their own feet financially.


Then how do you explain Franken's failure to attract & hold a sufficently large audience? Perhaps the "mirror image" into which he morphed wasn't as attractive as the ones (Limbaugh, O'reilly) you suggest he was copying.

I am always skeptical of claims that companies that fail did so because of their customers, or that writers, musicians, entertainers or even political spokesmen & commentators (even satirists) failed because their audience wasn't worthy of their talents.

The fact is that Franken exuded a certain bitter and vindictive quality that is less present in the material of his more successful competitors. I believe it was the degree to which he took himself so seriously, while often bitterly mocking the views of his opponents that led to his failure.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 04:07 pm
Thomas wrote:
Actually, I don't think he made this mistake. At least not in the beginning. In its early days, Air America had a lot of interesting guests, and its hosts were not fake authority. The tone was more or less conversational. It was afterwards that its shows gradually morphed into a mirror image of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

To this outside observer, it looks as if they moved to the now-failed "out-Rush Rush" concept because "radio by grown-ups for grown-ups" worked even worse. That's actually the most depressing part. It greatly dampens my optimism that if they had to NPR and PBS could stand on their own feet financially.


Then how do you explain Franken's failure to attract & hold a sufficently large audience? Perhaps the "mirror image" into which he morphed wasn't as attractive as the ones (Limbaugh, O'reilly) you suggest he was copying.

I am always skeptical of claims that companies that fail did so because of their customers, or that writers, musicians, entertainers or even political spokesmen & commentators (even satirists) failed because their audience wasn't worthy of their talents.

The fact is that Franken exuded a certain bitter and vindictive quality that is less present in the material of his more successful competitors. I believe it was the degree to which he took himself so seriously, while often bitterly mocking the views of his opponents that led to his failure.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 05:15 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Then how do you explain Franken's failure to attract & hold a sufficently large audience?

I don't. I have no idea why Franken failed at starting up a radio network. In particular, I'm not claiming that Franken made no mistake. He just didn't make the particular mistake that Green Which described.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 05:21 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
blatham wrote:

As regards "news" and Jon Stewart... of course, what Stewart does is satiric commentary on contemporary political issues and people. Now, if it is your contention that Monty Python or Mark Twain or Will Rogers or Mencken have nothing valuable to teach you/us about political matters, then ok, but I'd urge against such self-deprivation.



I'm no regular listener of any commentator - those cited above or Limbaugh. However, I have heard enough to know that the description above could be applied to Rush Limbaugh just as accurately as it was to those cited above. The only difference is in the particular prejudices brought to the question by the commentators on this thread.

I find the sweeping generalizations about the supposed different tastes and discretion of Liberals and Conservatives quite laughably absurd, and, in several cases, unworthy of their A2K authors.


No, george, actually you don't know enough to be at all confident that your assumptions prove true. You have listened to exactly how many minutes of Franken and of Rush?

Now, if it is the case that you haven't really attended to the actual subject matter under discussion in any significant manner, and there is nothing at all in what you've said here or elsewhere to suggest that you have, then who is doing the PREjuding and who is doing the sweeping generalized comment here?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 05:26 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Actually, I don't think he made this mistake. At least not in the beginning. In its early days, Air America had a lot of interesting guests, and its hosts were not fake authority. The tone was more or less conversational. It was afterwards that its shows gradually morphed into a mirror image of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

To this outside observer, it looks as if they moved to the now-failed "out-Rush Rush" concept because "radio by grown-ups for grown-ups" worked even worse. That's actually the most depressing part. It greatly dampens my optimism that if they had to NPR and PBS could stand on their own feet financially.


Then how do you explain Franken's failure to attract & hold a sufficently large audience? Perhaps the "mirror image" into which he morphed wasn't as attractive as the ones (Limbaugh, O'reilly) you suggest he was copying.

I am always skeptical of claims that companies that fail did so because of their customers, or that writers, musicians, entertainers or even political spokesmen & commentators (even satirists) failed because their audience wasn't worthy of their talents.

The fact is that Franken exuded a certain bitter and vindictive quality that is less present in the material of his more successful competitors. I believe it was the degree to which he took himself so seriously, while often bitterly mocking the views of his opponents that led to his failure.


How do you explain James Joyce's failure to hold the popularity levels of the World Federation of Wrestling in the American psyche? Popularity, say the growing popularity of extremist Islam, tells you exactly what about the value of popularity as a measure of anything at all except popularity?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 05:29 pm
Lash wrote:
This IS funny.

I like to read back to some of our comments way back when and see how progostications pan out.

Air America was hailed as the most wonderful thing since bread--and Franken was poised by a few of our notable liberals as an up and coming star of liberal radio to ride the crest of a great liberal surge.....

It doesn't matter --the date of my entry---Just the facts.

The hysterical one-sided comments were a trip, though. Laughing You need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid, crazy people!


Yes. Good idea. Do go back and find what was said here. And by who. Then we'll compare that to what you "recollect" was said. A little fact/accuracy check and I know you are up to it.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 06:09 pm
blatham wrote:
How do you explain James Joyce's failure to hold the popularity levels of the World Federation of Wrestling in the American psyche?

Again, I don't.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 06:55 pm
blatham wrote:

How do you explain James Joyce's failure to hold the popularity levels of the World Federation of Wrestling in the American psyche? Popularity, say the growing popularity of extremist Islam, tells you exactly what about the value of popularity as a measure of anything at all except popularity?


Well, I know many more people who are familiar with Joyce than are fans of wrestling shows on TV. It wouldn't surprise me if the same applied to you.

At the same time it must be noted that there are fads and "popularity" issues among the pursuits of the so-called intelligentsia as well. J.P. Sartre was once considered as the epitome of contemporary wisdom and right understanding. Now he is easily recognized as a neurotic, misguided (and rather vindictive) manipulator of the public fashion in "new ideas".

I don't think that watchers of TV "wrestling" shows really believe they are indulging in a substitute for thoughtful or intellectual activity. Coarse, overdrawn entertainments have a certain public appeal today as they did in Rome two millenia ago.

I am more skeptical of elitism than I am of public vulgarity.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 10:47 pm
What kind of uninformed idiot equates Air America with Progressive Talk Radio? What kind of ill-informed idiot doesn't/didn't know about Al Franken's intent to run for Senate?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 11:01 pm
Re: Air America Crashes Burns Franken prematurely ejectulate
Lash wrote:


Amazing, this article was dug up from December 18th, talk about being ill-informed!

Try keeping up.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 11:08 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
What kind of uninformed idiot equates Air America with Progressive Talk Radio? What kind of ill-informed idiot doesn't/didn't know about Al Franken's intent to run for Senate?


Actually I occasionally go several days at a time without ever thinking about Al Franken. I suspect he is already a senator -- at least in his own mind. Whether he is able to win an election is likely to be quite another matter. Are you taking bets?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 11:17 pm
I have found out long ago that it is fruitless to talk to fenceposts. Latest talk among people who actually KNOW something about politics give Franken an excellent chance, you obviuosly know very little about Franken or Minnesota politics, or politics in general, for that matter. And I don't have the time to educate you.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 05:34 am
First of all, a sad but thankful tip of the hat to Molly Ivins, one of the great American political humorists and writers who died two days ago. On Pat Buchanan's 1992 Republican Convention speech where he insisted that America was in the midst of and threatened by a great "culture war", Ivins said, "It sounded better in the original German."

Quote:
Well, I know many more people who are familiar with Joyce than are fans of wrestling shows on TV. It wouldn't surprise me if the same applied to you.

At the same time it must be noted that there are fads and "popularity" issues among the pursuits of the so-called intelligentsia as well. J.P. Sartre was once considered as the epitome of contemporary wisdom and right understanding. Now he is easily recognized as a neurotic, misguided (and rather vindictive) manipulator of the public fashion in "new ideas".

I don't think that watchers of TV "wrestling" shows really believe they are indulging in a substitute for thoughtful or intellectual activity. Coarse, overdrawn entertainments have a certain public appeal today as they did in Rome two millenia ago.

I am more skeptical of elitism than I am of public vulgarity.


Of course, YOU know more people who are familiar with Joyce than with wrestling.

Good god, george. What "group" do you think you "belong" to?! This is really more than a bit like George Bush pretending that he's just a truck-drivin' ranch guy. You've got a doctorate, you've served at the highest levels of the US military, you've supped with the boys who presently run the US government, you've read more Joyce and Hardy and Tolstoy not to mention history than all but a handful of the people here, your own family has a tradition at the highest level of US politics, and I'd guess it likely you could pop down and pick up a new Jag without much of a second thought. And you are prepared to speak derogations about "elitism"?
0 Replies
 
 

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