THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Analysis: Only Iraqis can win the war

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
2 hours, 46 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The harder President Bush has pushed to win in Iraq, the closer he has come to losing.

The question no longer is whether the U.S. military can fully stabilize Iraq. It cannot.

That was a possibility four years ago, immediately after Saddam Hussein's government fell. Before the insurgency took hold. Before U.S. occupation authorities lost any chance to avoid the sectarian strife of today's Iraq.

Now only the Iraqis can save Iraq.

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Australia plans to withdraw troops from Iraq
Australia plans to withdraw troops from Iraq: report
Sun Jul 1, 2007

Australian Prime Minister John Howard is secretly planning to begin withdrawing Australian troops from Iraq by February 2008, Australian media reported on Sunday.

The Sunday Telegraph, quoting an unnamed senior military source, described Howard's withdrawal plan as "one of the most closely guarded secrets in top levels of the bureaucracy."

The Sunday Telegraph said the drawdown of troops would focus on soldiers based in southern Iraq on security duty with Iraqi soldiers.

Australia has about 1,500 soldiers, sailors and airmen in and around Iraq.

Howard, a close ally of President George W. Bush, has been a mainstay of support for the controversial United States military presence in Iraq.

As recently as last week Prime Minister Howard said there were no plans to withdraw Australian troops from Iraq, and has consistently said that Australian troops would remain in Iraq for as long as needed.

A spokesman for Howard on Sunday referred to Howard's statement last week and told Reuters that he did not want to give credence to the Sunday Telegraph report.

Howard said last week that his government was not committed to a timetable over Australian troops in Iraq but was committed to an outcome driven by circumstances and events.

His withdrawal plan had yet to be put to U.S. President Bush or to the Australian Cabinet, the Sunday Telegraph said.

U.S. Ambassador to Australia Robert McCallum told Channel 10's Meet the Press program on Sunday that a plan by Opposition leader Kevin Rudd to withdraw Australian troops from Iraq, if he won power in elections to be held later this year, could create tensions between Australia and the United States.

"The United States is extraordinarily grateful to Australia for its commitments there (in Iraq)," he said.

"Whenever one agrees with an ally about any subject, it's better than if one disagrees and there's always a tension or a stress on a relationship," he said.

The tone of the relationship in relation to Iraq would depend on the details, he said.

McCallum praised the role of Australian troops in southern Iraq, even though they are not on combat duty.

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Good news?

Iraqi civilian death toll at low point

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
53 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Iraqi civilian deaths dropped to their lowest level since the start of the Baghdad security operation, government figures showed Sunday, suggesting signs of progress in tamping down violence in the capital.

But American casualties are running high as U.S. forces step up pressure on Sunni and Shiite extremists in and around Baghdad.

At least 1,227 Iraqi civilians were killed in June along with 190 policemen and 31 soldiers, an officer at the Iraqi Interior Ministry's operations room said. The officer spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the figures.

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Monday, July 2, 2007
Time to Take the Bull by the Horns

The US is in danger of digging a deeper hole in Iraq. Just when you thought that this Administration's policy in Iraq could not possibly get more screwed up than it already is, first it announces the building of walls around select neighbourhoods in Baghdad and then it begins to arm Sunni insurgents to fight Al Qaeda! All this comes on the heels of all the other bad decisions of monumental proportions: disbanding the army; purging all civil servants who were members of the Ba'ath party; redefining the new democratic institutions along sectarian lines; eliminating tariffs at the border; underestimating troop requirements, etc. etc. The litany of errors goes on and on.

It goes to show what sort of a bubble the US is operating in. Doesn't General Petraeus with his much touted strategic expertise realise that together these policies confirm all of the very worst suspicions held by the average Iraqi? The average Iraqi looks at the concrete walls and says, "Where have I seen these before? Why, in Israel and the West Bank of course!!" So, he concludes, the US is trying to do to us what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. Sure enough, far from protecting residents hemmed in by the walls, these concrete barriers both make them sitting ducks for sectarian cleansing and hampers their access to schools, shops, hospitals and the requirements of daily life. In the minds of the hemmed in Iraqis, the wall is there to target them and control them and not to protect them.

Arming the Ba'athists may in the very short term help against the relatively small percentage of insurgents with Al Qaeda affiliation, but in the long term is bound to fuel the conflict between the Sunnis and Shi'a. No doubt among the Shi'a community, this move is a sign that the US now favours the Sunnis. Bombing of the Askariya shrine will surely be seen in this light and viewed in a country prone to conspiracy theories, as a sign that the US and the Sunnis are in cahoots. Already prominent Shi'a leaders are saying that the US, and not the Iraqi Government, was responsible for security around the Shrine, and are making it very clear that from their point of view failure to protect it is very difficult to understand.

As each day goes by, we are digging a deeper hole in the Middle East. The war in Iraq has already begun to spawn instability in the wider region. Lebanon is becoming a dangerous tinderbox. Turkey is slipping toward military involvement in "Kurdistan", and the West Bank and Gaza are close to total anarchy. Insurgent technologies, battle tested in Iraq, are now showing up in other countries such as Afghanistan. Al Qaeda, which never had a foothold in Iraq under Saddam Hussein is now definitely ideologically influential in that country if not actually present. Worse still, Iraq is viewed as a symbol of Western oppression and is gaining sympathizers in Europe, sympathizers who have already taken action with disastrous consequences. Far from spreading democracy, the fanciful "reverse domino theory' rescued and dusted off from the Cold War playbook and espoused by Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz is spreading instability, alienation and radicalization.

It really is time to pull out and reassess. The Republicans keep saying that you cannot pull out without having a solution. Well, when a bull goes into a China shop, there is no graceful solution. There is not much that can be done but to get the bull out. The shop owner is is going to have to be left to pick up the pieces and move on. It is not going to endear the US to the Iraqis, nor indeed to the rest of the world, but the damage is already done and frankly, there is no other solution.

Attention now needs to shift to holding back the forces unleashed in Iraq from spreading more widely. US credibility is now very limited in the region. We need to think in multilateral terms. We need to think in political and not military terms. We need to launch a political initiative along with the European Union in support of a political process led by the moderate countries of the region to do the necessary to halt the spreading cancer and to stabilise Iraq.

Rajeev Pillay is a founding partner of Abacus International Management L.L.C., a consulting firm that works on governance and democratization.
Mr. Pillay has been extensively involved in the development of reforms and the management of change at UNDP and the United Nations.

http://icga.blogspot.com/

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xingu, When Petraeus spoke in front of congress, he said this war can't be won only by the military front; it needed to win politically. Guess what? He's put all his efforts into the war front, and we're still losing big time on the political front - which will take much longer to mend. More deaths, more enemies.

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I wonder if Bush and the neocons who want to attack Iran see this.

McCain is making his 6th trip to Iraq. Can't wait to see what he'll say when he gets back.

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xingu wrote:

I wonder if Bush and the neocons who want to attack Iran see this.

McCain is making his 6th trip to Iraq. Can't wait to see what he'll say when he gets back.

"It sure is shady with all those choppers flying overhead!"

Cycloptichorn

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McCain is a non-entity with his rating as a candidate for president is falling; his trip to Iraq is a big waste of time and money. His analysis on Iraq's progress won't be taken seriously by most Americans.

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I don't see anyone running away on the Republican side esp. since Tompson has not yet declared. I seriously doubt McCain will get it but will he change his mind on Iraq? If so than Bush has lost another ally on Iraq, and that will be big news.

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I recommend you all read:

THE ENEMY AT HOME THE CULTURAL LEFT AND ITS RESPONSIBILITY FOR 9/11

By Dinesh D'Souza

Published by Doubleday, 2007

-----

D'Souza's presents a point of view I have not previously considered. Namely, Muslims fear America's decadent culture will infect and destroy the worldwide Muslim culture, and therefore must be destroyed before that cultural infection spreds to their culture.

D'Souza, pages 1-2, wrote:

In faulting the cultural left, I am not making the absurd accusation that this group blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. I am saying that the cultural left and its allies in Congress, the media, Hollywood, the non-profit sector, and the universities are the primary cause of the volcano of anger toward America that is erupting from the Islamic world. The Muslims who carried out the 9/11 attacks were the product of visceral rage--some of it based on or fueled and encouraged by the cultural left. Thus without the cultural left, 9/11 would not have happened.
...
The left is responsible for 9/11 in the following ways. First, the cultural left has fostered a decadent American culture that angers and repulses traditional societies, especially those in the Islamic world that are being overwhelmed with this culture. In addition, the left is waging an aggresive global campaign to undermine the traditional patriarchal family and to promote secular values in non-western cultures. This campaign has provoked a violent reaction from Muslims who believe their most cherished beliefs and institutions are under assault. Further, the cultural left has routinely affirmed the most vicious prejudices about American foreign policy held by radical factions in the Muslim world, and then it has emboldened those factions to attack the United States with the firm conviction that "America deserves it" and that they can do so with relative impunity. ...

All the rest of Disouza's book is about why he thinks the above is true, and what Americans should do about it.

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Baloney.

Osama told us why he attacked us; our occupation of Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Osama is smart enough to know that neither he nor the Muslims can destroy America. Stupid Americans may think that's what they think but Muslim terrorist are smarter than stupid uninformed Americans who believe the BS the Bush administration puts out.

They want to hurt us and that's what they did on 9/11. What the hell do you think they're going to destroy us with, suicide bombers?

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Some people have just lost all common sense and logic; they would rather believe the "prezeedent."

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I can't believe anyone would believe that trash. What the hell do they think will occupy our country after they destroy us with, what?

Is a massive Muslim army going to flood across the unprotected Mexican border and kill us all?

Rolling Eyes

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Why do you believe what you posted?

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Because Osama is interested in the Islamic world. We are infidels and have no right being in their land corrupting their way of life. He knows he can't conquer or destroy us. But he can make us pay for coming into their world, a place we have no business being.

That article you presented is just another piece of right wing clap trap pissing and moaning about how liberals are destroying America.

Let me get this straight; Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell agree that 9/11 was caused by the liberal left. They pissed off God and he withdrew his protection. Dinesh D'Souza says the liberal left is responsible because it made Muslims hate us so much they attacked us. It had nothing to do with our foreign policy what so ever. It was all homosexuals and dirty movies.

Why, if we were all good true Christians that had torn down the wall between church and state, allowed our laws to be based on the Bible, as Osama would want their laws based on the Koran, 9/11 would never have happened.

You believe that ican?

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Yesterday was the anniversary of

Quote:

Bring them on.

source

Quote:

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 3581
Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 5
Total 3586

source

Quote:

July 2 (Reuters) - Following are security developments in Iraq at 1730 GMT on Monday:

* denotes new or updated item.

* BAGHDAD - Nine people were killed and 33 wounded by a car bomb parked near a market in the religiously mixed district of Binoog in northern Baghdad, police said.

* BAGHDAD - Seventeen bodies were found in different parts of the capital on Monday, police said.

* BAGHDAD - An Iraqi policeman was shot dead by a sniper in Karrada, central Baghdad, police said.

* BAGHDAD - One person was killed and two wounded in a mortar attack in Bayaa, south west Baghdad, police said.

* BAGHDAD - Gunmen killed two people and wounded three in a drive-by shooting in Bayaa.

* NAJAF - Gunmen killed a former Baath party member near his home in Najaf, 160 km (100 miles) south of the capital, police said.

MOSUL - The Iraqi army killed 12 insurgents, including three al Qaeda members, during overnight raids near the northern city of Mosul, the army said. Troops found lethal roadside bombs called explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, during the raid.

BAGHDAD - The Iraqi army also said it killed eight insurgents and arrested 99 others in the past 24 hours in other parts of Iraq, the Defence Ministry said.

ANBAR - Two U.S. soldiers and one Marine were killed on Sunday during combat operations in western Anbar Province, the U.S. military said.

HAWIJA - Gunmen wounded three policemen when they attacked a police patrol in the town of Hawija, 70 km (40 miles) southwest of the city of Kirkuk, police said.

DIWANIYA - A man was killed and two police guards were wounded during an exchange of fire between police guarding a government building and dozens of demonstrators protesting what they said was a pre-dawn U.S. air strike in the city of Diwaniya, 180 km (110 miles) south of Baghdad, police said.

BAGHDAD - Two U.S. soldiers were killed in Baghdad on Sunday, the U.S. military said. One soldier was killed by small arms fire in southern Baghdad. The second soldier was killed by gunfire that followed a roadside bomb attack in western Baghdad. Two Iraqi policemen were wounded in that attack.

BAGHDAD - Iraqi security forces found 14 bodies across Baghdad on Sunday, police said. Most bodies found dumped in the capital are usually victims of sectarian death squads.

BAGHDAD - Gunmen killed three Iraqi soldiers and one civilian when they attacked an Iraqi military checkpoint in eastern Baghdad on Sunday evening, police sources said. They said three people were wounded.

MOSUL - Gunmen killed a police colonel along with his driver on Sunday in Mosul, 390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. Another policeman was killed in a separate attack.

MOSUL - A roadside bomb killed a policeman and wounded four people, including two policemen, when it struck their patrol car in Mosul, police said.

KIRKUK - Gunmen killed the preacher of a Sunni mosque in the northern city of Kirkuk on Sunday, police said.

MISHAHDA - Militants blew up a petrol station after they planted explosives around it on Sunday in the small Sunni town of Mishahda, north of Baghdad, police said. There were no casualties.

source

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xingu wrote:

Baloney.

Osama told us why he attacked us; our occupation of Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Osama is smart enough to know that neither he nor the Muslims can destroy America. Stupid Americans may think that's what they think but Muslim terrorist are smarter than stupid uninformed Americans who believe the BS the Bush administration puts out.

They want to hurt us and that's what they did on 9/11. What the hell do you think they're going to destroy us with, suicide bombers?

How are we "occupying" Saudi Arabia?

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mysteryman wrote:

xingu wrote:
Baloney.

Osama told us why he attacked us; our occupation of Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Osama is smart enough to know that neither he nor the Muslims can destroy America. Stupid Americans may think that's what they think but Muslim terrorist are smarter than stupid uninformed Americans who believe the BS the Bush administration puts out.

They want to hurt us and that's what they did on 9/11. What the hell do you think they're going to destroy us with, suicide bombers?

How are we "occupying" Saudi Arabia?

We had quite a few military bases there. It's a valid complaint.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
xingu wrote:
Baloney.

Osama told us why he attacked us; our occupation of Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Osama is smart enough to know that neither he nor the Muslims can destroy America. Stupid Americans may think that's what they think but Muslim terrorist are smarter than stupid uninformed Americans who believe the BS the Bush administration puts out.

They want to hurt us and that's what they did on 9/11. What the hell do you think they're going to destroy us with, suicide bombers?

How are we "occupying" Saudi Arabia?

We had quite a few military bases there. It's a valid complaint.

Cycloptichorn

From what I can find,we only had two bases in Saudi Arabia.
How is that "occupying" SA?

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mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
xingu wrote:
Baloney.

Osama told us why he attacked us; our occupation of Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Osama is smart enough to know that neither he nor the Muslims can destroy America. Stupid Americans may think that's what they think but Muslim terrorist are smarter than stupid uninformed Americans who believe the BS the Bush administration puts out.

They want to hurt us and that's what they did on 9/11. What the hell do you think they're going to destroy us with, suicide bombers?

How are we "occupying" Saudi Arabia?

We had quite a few military bases there. It's a valid complaint.

Cycloptichorn

From what I can find,we only had two bases in Saudi Arabia.
How is that "occupying" SA?

Like to get picky, don't you. Troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. How's that?

That is an abomination for conservative Muslims like Osama bin Laden. That's one of the reasons he attacked us and wants to destroy the Saudi government. It has nothing to do with democracy being as how Saudi Arabia is, perhaps, the least democratic country in the Middle East.

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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