9
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 01:25 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

He also said during the campaign that we shouldn't pull out of Iraq as recklessly as we got into Iraq.

Then apparently he did not believe what he said during the campaign? He was essentially lying then? He clearly said the war in Iraq was a diversion from more important things, and a waste of time. I heard him say it many times. If it was a waste of time then, it is obviously a waste of time now.

Obama cannot have it both ways. Either he was lying and it was not a waste of time then, or it was a waste of time as he said it was, which it still would be now. After all, the mission is no different now than it was then, which was and is to stabilize the country under responsible and non-tyrannical leadership so that the Iraqis can join other responsible nations in being able to run their own country in a responsible manner.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 08:49 am
@okie,
Question The following is what Obama said concerning Iraq during his compaign.

Quote:
Be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in

Q: How do we pull out now, without opening Iraq up for Iran and Syria?

A: Look, I opposed this war from the start. Because I anticipated that we would be creating the kind of sectarian violence that we’ve seen and that it would distract us from the war on terror. At this point, I think we can be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in. But we have to send a clear message to the Iraqi government as well as to the surrounding neighbors that there is no military solution to the problems that we face in Iraq. So we have to begin a phased withdrawal; have our combat troops out by March 31st of next year; and initiate the kind of diplomatic surge that is necessary in these surrounding regions to make sure that everybody is carrying their weight. And that is what I will do on day one, as president of the United States, if we have not done it in the intervening months.


Quote:
Leave troops for protection of Americans & counterterrorism

The first thing I will do is initiate a phased redeployment. Military personnel indicate we can get one brigade to two brigades out per month. I would immediately begin that process. We would get combat troops out of Iraq. The only troops that would remain would be those that have to protect US bases and US civilians, as well as to engage in counterterrorism activities in Iraq.


http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/barack_obama_war_+_peace.htm
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 11:17 am
@revelette,
I doubt the speed at which Obama redeployed our troops would have made any difference, because sectarian violence has been happening for over a thousand years in that country. The violence was suspended under Saddam because he controlled the country with an iron fist.

Our intervention in Iraq was a total loss for our country of resources and our military.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 07:09 am
@revelette,
Apparently okie is lying and wants you to believe him in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

But then this is nothing new with okie. He tends to do this a lot while proclaiming he is principled, honest and decent.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 09:01 am
@cicerone imposter,

Quote:
Our intervention in Iraq was a total loss for our country of resources and our military.


That's right, in the main. But it meant that America maintains a big part in Middle East oil production, and it stopped Saddam linking his country's oil revenues to the Euro.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 10:58 am
@McTag,
That would have ended up as a disaster, as Europe is barely surviving the Greek, Spain, Portugal, crisis. More bailouts from Germany will only cripple their own economy.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 11:24 am
@revelette,
revelette, the quotes you provided from Obama himself support what I posted. Please note what parados posted accusing me of lying, as he accuses anyone that disagrees with him or discovers his lies with the same thing as he does, but his accusations are fraudulant. It should be obvious to everyone what Obama said about Iraq during his campaign, as it is part of the record. Thank you for providing just one quote of the many he made similarly about Iraq. By now, we know that parados is such an extreme partisan that he will defend anything that Obama does and says with lawyerly ease and lack of conscience. If you are interested in a logical debate, just ignore parados.

I have repeated your Obama quotes about Iraq during his campaign below, but to summarize quickly, he said he opposed the war from the start and that he believed the war would create sectarian violence like he thinks has happened, and that the war in Iraq was a distraction and is a distraction from the real war on terror. He then said he would conduct a phased withdrawal of troops and have all combat troops out by March 31st of 2009. That was almost a year and a half ago now, revellette.

Now, if he actually believed then what he said then, he would have had all of the combat troops out by now. One could possibly use the argument that all combat troops are out, but I know different because I have a close relative that was there long after March of 2009. He was in the infantry in fact, and his mission was combat if necessary, so he was a combat troop. The truth of this is that Obama apparently did not believe what he said during the campaign, or if he believed it, he has not kept his promises at all. That means he was apparently lying to us.

I say again, if Obama believed or believes what he said, the mission in Iraq is now much the same as then, and he would have and should have simply withdrawn all troops, combat and otherwise, out of Iraq immediately after taking office. He can still do it now if he actually believes any of the stuff that he said.

Here is a repeat of the quote you provided, revelette:
"A: Look, I opposed this war from the start. Because I anticipated that we would be creating the kind of sectarian violence that we’ve seen and that it would distract us from the war on terror. At this point, I think we can be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in. But we have to send a clear message to the Iraqi government as well as to the surrounding neighbors that there is no military solution to the problems that we face in Iraq. So we have to begin a phased withdrawal; have our combat troops out by March 31st of next year; and initiate the kind of diplomatic surge that is necessary in these surrounding regions to make sure that everybody is carrying their weight. And that is what I will do on day one, as president of the United States, if we have not done it in the intervening months."
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 12:40 pm
@okie,
okie, Your denial that parados called you a liar for no reason is not true; it's not about disagreements, but he has posted what you wrote and explained why they are lies. You still refuse to acknowledge them as lies; that's not anybody else's problem. If it's fraudulant as you claim, please provide proof that they are. You just can't claim they are fraudulant without proof.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 01:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
okie wrote:
Please note what parados posted accusing me of lying, as he accuses anyone that disagrees with him or discovers his lies with the same thing as he does, but his accusations are fraudulant.

cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, Your denial that parados called you a liar for no reason is not true; it's not about disagreements, but he has posted what you wrote and explained why they are lies. You still refuse to acknowledge them as lies;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?
okie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 01:35 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, can you believe it? parados's version of lies is like the following. When I say that "Obama does not love America," he claims I said "Obama hates America." I have explained on numerous occasions how that not loving something in a complete or definite way does not necessarily translate into hatred, that there are feelings such as apathy, ambivalence, or simply more passionate feelings toward something else, and in Obama's case I think it is more of a case of love for his own power and messianic image than it is love or hatred toward his own country. For example, there were many women that I liked or was simply ambivalent about before I married my wife of 38 years, whom I truly loved and still do. It was not a matter of hating other women at all. I have to conclude that parados, and now ci, are more interested in twisting and attempting to entrap conservatives rather than having any kind of civil and reasoned debate here. I don't know if it is intentional dishonesty, naivity, or just stupidity on the part of liberals here. I think at this point it is more likely dishonesty, essentially lying on their part, which seems to be a trait for many liberals.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 01:40 pm
@okie,
Do you think, okie, an US-president should stay in office as long as you are married to the same wife to prove that he/she loves and loved his/her country?
okie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 01:55 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
What kind of a stupid question is that, Walter? We can hopefully have a reasoned debate here, but that kind of crap doesn't help the cause at all.

I could counter your stupid statement by pointing out that Castro is still going in Cuba too, but does that mean he loves Cuba? He probably loves himself more than Cuba, otherwise he would have given up on his idiotic regime. But does he hate Cuba, probably not, but it certainly does not indicate he knows what the best policies are, does it?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:06 pm
@okie,
Not so stupid a question; he's not talking about Cuba, but our country, the US, and our president Obama.

Now, answer the damn question.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Its a stupid question, and you know it. What president stays in office indefinitely to prove he loves the country? Are you an idiot? I can take the gloves off too, as you like to do, but seriously that is a stupid question from Walter and so is your demand to answer it. A president takes an oath when he takes office for his term, but even that oath is not like a wedding vow, it is more a vow to uphold the office and constitution as long as in office, which may or may not last 4 years.

I wonder if the scheme here for liberals is to ask stupid questions and try to bait conservatives into saying something stupid. Your problem is that your stupid questions and opinions only stand by themselves as testimonials to your own mentality. The question is, are you guys really interested in carrying on a reasonable debate as decent and reasonable adults?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:17 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

What kind of a stupid question is that, Walter? We can hopefully have a reasoned debate here, but that kind of crap doesn't help the cause at all.


Actually it was you, okie, who started that comparison with your wife and the loves you had before ...
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:19 pm
@okie,
This is what Walter wrote:
Quote:
@okie,
Do you think, okie, an US-president should stay in office as long as you are married to the same wife to prove that he/she loves and loved his/her country?


It's really a straight-forward question. That you fail to understand US laws is not his problem; it's your's.

You do understand/comprehend English?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:21 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I wonder if the scheme here for liberals is to ask stupid questions and try to bait conservatives into saying something stupid. Your problem is that your stupid questions and opinions only stand by themselves as testimonials to your own mentality. The question is, are you guys really interested in carrying on a reasonable debate as decent and reasonable adults?


I'm glad that I'm not a liberal ... well, I have a liberal mind, but politically I'm on the left and a Social-Democrat.

Nut I agree that quite a few of my questions might sound stupid. Has a lot to do with gyri, synapses, etc
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I think Obama should resign if he loves the USA. By staying in office he is in the process of destroying it!

Of course he should resign if he hates the USA, and refuses to keep his oath to "faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 02:33 pm
@okie,
Leftist Liberals favor stealing from those who have more and giving it to those who have less, while keeping some of what they steal for themselves.

They lie when they deny this!
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 04:02 pm
@ican711nm,
You and okie are habitual liars. You haven't shown us where taxation is against the law.
 

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