THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Or, How about concluding that the growth of al-Qaeda after our invasions has caused our post invasion problems to become more difficult?

I'm happy to conclude that, as it was the obvious and predictable - and predicted - response to our actions in the region.

Cycloptichorn

How about that! We finally agree about something!

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Or, How about concluding that the growth of al-Qaeda after our invasions has caused our post invasion problems to become more difficult?

I'm happy to conclude that, as it was the obvious and predictable - and predicted - response to our actions in the region.

Cycloptichorn

How about that! We finally agree about something!

So why were there not much more drastic, ie, realistic, predictions about the challenges we would face in the post-war period?

Did those who plan the war not predict this as well? That's scary to contemplate, as it is truly a basic reaction on the part of the population in question.

Cycloptichorn

Months before the invasion of Iraq, U.S. intelligence agencies predicted that it would be likely to spark violent sectarian divides and provide al-Qaeda with new opportunities in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a report released yesterday by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Analysts warned that war in Iraq also could provoke Iran to assert its regional influence and "probably would result in a surge of political Islam and increased funding for terrorist groups" in the Muslim world.

The intelligence assessments, made in January 2003 and widely circulated within the Bush administration before the war, said that establishing democracy in Iraq would be "a long, difficult and probably turbulent challenge." The assessments noted that Iraqi political culture was "largely bereft of the social underpinnings" to support democratic development.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Or, How about concluding that the growth of al-Qaeda after our invasions has caused our post invasion problems to become more difficult?

I'm happy to conclude that, as it was the obvious and predictable - and predicted - response to our actions in the region.

Cycloptichorn

How about that! We finally agree about something!

So why were there not much more drastic, ie, realistic, predictions about the challenges we would face in the post-war period?

Did those who plan the war not predict this as well? That's scary to contemplate, as it is truly a basic reaction on the part of the population in question.

Cycloptichorn

Because we are all flawed human beings.

Uhhh ... except me! I'm scheduled to be perfect by next Tuesday... BUT ... I am way, way, ... way behind schedule ... sigh!

Because we are all flawed human beings.

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So why were there not much more drastic, ie, realistic, predictions about the challenges we would face in the post-war period?

Did those who plan the war not predict this as well? That's scary to contemplate, as it is truly a basic reaction on the part of the population in question.
...

Because we are all flawed human beings.
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A terrible answer on your part.

They didn't forget to pick up the dry cleaning.

They didn't tell a small lie about a dress looking good.

They didn't accidentally hurt someone's feelings.

They didn't do anything for which an acceptable excuse would be:

Quote:

Because we are all flawed human beings.

They, through their hubris and incompetence, caused death. Many deaths. Deaths due to their unwillingness to plan for the post-war period. Their inability to have modesty in their goals has directly lead to the deaths of many innocents and many US soldiers. And to very, very little gain for us as a society.

If these people were not given special immunity, they would all be in court on charges of gross mismanagement of public funds and trust. This isn't a matter of a simple mistake; it's a matter of life-changing mistakes on their part. They have threatened all Americans with a more dangerous future thanks to incompetence.

And all you can say is 'nobody's perfect?'

I don't expect perfection, I expect base competence.

Cycloptichorn

I have no problem whatsoever with the belief that one should expect competence amongst those tasked with the mutual governance of our society. In fact, I nearly think I must insist upon it.

I think that any citizen of any freely elected nation should expect and demand no less. I think that every human is given the ability to look at a given situation and judge for themselves, based upon available evidence, the difficulty of coming up with conservative projections. Naturally some will be better then others at this task.

I do not wish to have my interests represented by someone who is unable to think one or two moves ahead in a chess game. I would hope that the best our country could offer could do much, much better.

I don't understand why you feel differently than this.

Cycloptichorn

We can predict with pretty good accuracy what any result will be when Bush says he's going to do something.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I have no problem whatsoever with the belief that one should expect competence amongst those tasked with the mutual governance of our society. In fact, I nearly think I must insist upon it.

I think that any citizen of any freely elected nation should expect and demand no less. I think that every human is given the ability to look at a given situation and judge for themselves, based upon available evidence, the difficulty of coming up with conservative projections. Naturally some will be better then others at this task.

I do not wish to have my interests represented by someone who is unable to think one or two moves ahead in a chess game. I would hope that the best our country could offer could do much, much better.

I don't understand why you feel differently than this.

Cycloptichorn

I think you are not competent enough to recognize a candidate who is competent enough.

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I have no problem whatsoever with the belief that one should expect competence amongst those tasked with the mutual governance of our society. In fact, I nearly think I must insist upon it.

I think that any citizen of any freely elected nation should expect and demand no less. I think that every human is given the ability to look at a given situation and judge for themselves, based upon available evidence, the difficulty of coming up with conservative projections. Naturally some will be better then others at this task.

I do not wish to have my interests represented by someone who is unable to think one or two moves ahead in a chess game. I would hope that the best our country could offer could do much, much better.

I don't understand why you feel differently than this.

Cycloptichorn

I think you are not competent enough to recognize a candidate who is competent enough.

This is getting dangerously close to the realm of personal insult.

And I don't mind that. I just want to make sure that this is the direction you're looking to go with things; if it is, there's plenty that I could say.

I don't think your comment is in very good taste and would be interested to know where you draw your evidence for this false opinion from.

Cycloptichorn

I rest comfortably on my record of achievement and am not swayed in the slightest by your uninformed assumption.
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Cycloptichorn