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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 01:59 pm
What a brilliant way to reduce the violence in Iraq; don't report it.

Kind of like those exaggerated body counts during the Vietnam war; with those horrendous losses the North Vietnamese were sustaining there was no possible way for them to win.

Funny how reality has a way of kicking you in the ass.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:02 pm
I personally believe the violence has decreased just temporarily; who wants to fight a war in the middle of summer in Iraq?

The coming months will tell the whole story about "violence reduction." We'll just have to wait and see, but my money says it'll increase again based on 1) the drop in US military troops, and 2) more innocent Iraqis killed creates more enemies.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:03 pm
It will also be interesting to see what happens in Iraq when Bush attacks Iran.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:16 pm
The Iran war will be based on 100 percent air war.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:21 pm
True but Iran has a lot of friends in Iraq. Iran was the country that supported Iraqi Shiites that fled Saddam's Iraq and helped wage the guerrilla war in Iraq. The unknown factor is what the Middle East's Shiites will do if Iran is attacked. We had better hope nothing will happen.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:32 pm
No, the Shiites in other countries will react against the US in ways not seen before now. They have learned that keeping quiet while the US occupies a Middle East country does not bode well for any. Saudi Arabia has continued to fund the Shiites of Iraq for good reason.

With Turkey getting involved in Northern Iraq, the mess Bush created will only become worse.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:35 pm
A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq, After April 2007:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

May = 3,755 / 31 = ………………... 121 per day

…………….. Surge fully operational in June ……………..

June = 2,386 / 30 = …………......… 80 per day.
July = 2,077 / 31 = …………......... 67 per day.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ……...…..... 67 per day.
September = 1,333 / 30 = ……….. 44 per day.
October = 205 / 4 = ……………….... 51 per day.*

November = ----? / 30 = ----? per day.**
December = ----? / 31 = ----? per day.**


… *Data currently available for only first 4 days of this month.
… **Data not yet available.


Daily Average Violent Deaths in Iraq--PRE AND POST JANUARY 1, 2003:
PRE = 1/1/1979 - 12/31/2002 = 1,229,210/ 8,766 days = 140 per day;
POST = 1/1/2003 - 10/04/2007 = 82,331/1,737 days = …..…. 47 per day;
PRE / POST = 140/47 = 2.96.

We must win and succeed in Iraq, because we Americans will suffer significant losses of our freedoms, if we do not win and succeed in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:42 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
No, the Shiites in other countries will react against the US in ways not seen before now. They have learned that keeping quiet while the US occupies a Middle East country does not bode well for any. Saudi Arabia has continued to fund the Shiites of Iraq for good reason.

With Turkey getting involved in Northern Iraq, the mess Bush created will only become worse.


From TPM, a Frontline interview with one of the heads of Iran's Quds force:

Quote:


In the documentary, Jafari promises retaliation against any U.S. military strike on Iran:

"You will not find a single instance in which a country has inflicted harm on us and we have not responded. So if the United States makes such a mistake, they should know that we will definitely respond. And we don't make idle threats."

He's joined in that sentiment by Hossein Shariatmadari, a mouthpiece for "supreme leader" Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i:

"As the Supreme Leader has said, if we're attacked we will threaten all American interests around the globe. The first step would be that all areas in Israel are in reach of our missiles, I mean there is not a single place in Israel outside the range of our missiles."


Iran doesn't have the ability to attack us in any meaningful way here in the US. But they sure do have the ability to blow the **** out of Israel and Iraq and Afghanistan.

Prudence would state that we should act cautiously before exploding the entire middle east into war.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 03:03 pm
Quote:
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 03:18 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
No, the Shiites in other countries will react against the US in ways not seen before now. They have learned that keeping quiet while the US occupies a Middle East country does not bode well for any. Saudi Arabia has continued to fund the Shiites of Iraq for good reason.

With Turkey getting involved in Northern Iraq, the mess Bush created will only become worse.


From TPM, a Frontline interview with one of the heads of Iran's Quds force:

Quote:


In the documentary, Jafari promises retaliation against any U.S. military strike on Iran:

"You will not find a single instance in which a country has inflicted harm on us and we have not responded. So if the United States makes such a mistake, they should know that we will definitely respond. And we don't make idle threats."

He's joined in that sentiment by Hossein Shariatmadari, a mouthpiece for "supreme leader" Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i:

"As the Supreme Leader has said, if we're attacked we will threaten all American interests around the globe. The first step would be that all areas in Israel are in reach of our missiles, I mean there is not a single place in Israel outside the range of our missiles."


Iran doesn't have the ability to attack us in any meaningful way here in the US. But they sure do have the ability to blow the **** out of Israel and Iraq and Afghanistan.

Prudence would state that we should act cautiously before exploding the entire middle east into war.

Cycloptichorn


Of course that means if Iran shoots missiles at Israel, Israel will, most probably, respond with nuclear weapons. If this should go nuclear this will be another legacy of George Bush.

Bush has made so many threats against Iran I don't see how he can avoid attacking her. If he did nothing before his term ends he will look like an impotent fool. Iran will not back down and Bush has talked himself into attacking her. It's a matter of time.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 03:23 pm
xingu wrote:
It will also be interesting to see what happens in Iraq when Bush attacks Iran.


Are you willing to bet on this?

I will bet any amount of money you want that Bush does not attack Iran.
I am more certain that it will be a dem Pres that attacks Iran.

So, how about it?
Are you so certain of your beliefs?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:10 pm
xingu wrote:

Bush has made so many threats against Iran I don't see how he can avoid attacking her.

How many threats has Iran made? Also, how many weapons, including IEDs, and insurgents have been sent by Iran to other countries, such as Iraq?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:23 pm
mysteryman wrote:
xingu wrote:
It will also be interesting to see what happens in Iraq when Bush attacks Iran.


Are you willing to bet on this?

I will bet any amount of money you want that Bush does not attack Iran.
I am more certain that it will be a dem Pres that attacks Iran.

So, how about it?
Are you so certain of your beliefs?


Like I said Bush has already talked himself into attacking Iran.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:25 pm
okie wrote:
xingu wrote:

Bush has made so many threats against Iran I don't see how he can avoid attacking her.

How many threats has Iran made? Also, how many weapons, including IEDs, and insurgents have been sent by Iran to other countries, such as Iraq?


And how many terrorist are we supporting to attack Iran? Look it up okie.

Iran has the right to protect her own self-interest against a nation that has already shown it will lie and distort intelligence in order to attack another nation.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:31 pm
okie wrote:
xingu wrote:

Bush has made so many threats against Iran I don't see how he can avoid attacking her.

How many threats has Iran made? Also, how many weapons, including IEDs, and insurgents have been sent by Iran to other countries, such as Iraq?


The vast majority of foreign fighters in Iraq come from Syria and Saudi Arabia, not Iran. But you don't want to fight with them, do you?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:06 pm
Iran's Challenges from Within: An Overview of Ethno-Sectarian UnrestThe Domestic ThreatThe Demographic Picture
Iran's Farsi-speaking, ethnic Persian community comprises only a slim majority of the total population of an estimated 70 million, of whom nearly all are Shiites. Ethnic Azeris, who are estimated to number between 15 and 20 million and are also Shiites, constitute the second largest minority. Ethnic Kurds represent the third largest ethnic group, with a population between four and seven million, and are mostly Sunnis. Ethnic Baloch, the majority of whom are Sunnis, number between one and four million. Ethnic Arabs number between one and three million and are predominantly Shiites. Turkmen number between one and two million and are mostly Sunnis. Iran is also home to Gilakis, Mazandaranis, Bakhtiaris, Lurs and Qashqais, most of whom are Shiites, as well as Bahais, Zoroastrians, Armenian Christians and Jews [2].

Violence and Rebellion
Kurdish insurgents are among the most prolific militants operating in Iran. Most Iranian Kurds inhabit the mountainous region of northwestern Iran, where the borders of Turkey, Iraq and Iran meet, while smaller communities reside in Iran's northeastern region of Khorasan. Like their kin elsewhere in the region, they face widespread discrimination by the ethnic Persian-dominated Shiite clerical regime. As Sunni Muslims with a proud sense of cultural and national identity, they do not identify with the Shiite Islamist regime and efforts by the state to suppress their culture and identity. Iran's Kurdish regions have experienced growing violence in recent months between the Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan (PJAK), a group alleged to have ties to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in Turkey, and Iranian security forces (Terrorism Monitor, June 15, 2006). Iran claims that PJAK operates in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq and receives support from the United States (IRNA, July 14). On the political front, groups such as the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan (DPKI) and the Komoleh-Revolutionary Party of Kurdistan advocate for Iranian Kurdish rights in the diaspora (http://www.pdki.org; http://www.komala.org).

Iranian Baloch nationalist groups such as Jundallah (Soldiers of God), also known as People's Resistance Movement of Iran (PRMI), have orchestrated a series of high-profile attacks against Iranian security forces dating back to 2003. Ethnic Baloch inhabit Iran's impoverished and desolate southeastern province of Sistan-Balochistan, a lawless region and smuggling crossroads. Sistan-Balochistan is a frequent target for Iranian security forces. As a fiercely independent tribal society that has been neglected by a highly-centralized state, ethnic Baloch have always felt a sense of alienation from Tehran. Despite a lack of evidence, Iranian authorities often label Baloch militants as agents of al-Qaeda and the Taliban in an effort to tarnish the group's reputation due to their Sunni faith (Terrorism Monitor, June 29, 2006). Ethnic Baloch animosity toward Tehran runs so deep that they look to their kin in Pakistan's neighboring province of Balochistan, who are engaged in their own secessionist struggle, and the Baloch community in Afghanistan in what Baloch nationalists label as "Greater Balochistan." Iran accuses the United States of supporting Jundallah from Pakistani territory (IRNA, April 18). Baloch nationalists are represented by the Balochistan People's Party (BPP) and a host of other groups abroad (http://www.ostomaan.org/).

The southwestern province of Khuzestan located on the Iran-Iraq border is home to most of Iran's ethnic Arab population known as the Ahwazi (Ahvazi in Farsi). Khuzestan contains much of Iran's oil and gas wealth, yet remains one of the country's least developed regions. This is partly a legacy of the devastation it endured as the frontline for much of the Iran-Iraq war and, according to many Ahwazis, a deliberate policy by Tehran to ensure that the region remains underdeveloped and impoverished. Despite the fact that most Ahwazis are Shiite Muslims and speak Farsi, they maintain close tribal and cultural links with their Shiite Arab kin in southern Iraq and maintain a strong sense of Arab identity. The region was the scene of a number of bombings and attacks against government targets in recent years. Tehran blamed Ahwazi militants, including the obscure Hizb al-Nahda al-Arabi al-Ahwazi (Ahwazi Arab Renaissance Party) and other groups as acting on the behest of U.S. and British intelligence (http://www.al-mohamra.nu). Ahwaz nationalists are represented in the diaspora by the Democratic Solidarity Party of Ahwaz, Ahwaz Revolutionary Council, Ahwaz Study Center (ASC) and British-Ahwazi Friendship Society (http://www.alahwaz-revolutionary-council.org; http://www.alahwaz-revolutionary-council.org; http://www.ahwaz.org.uk).

Tensions in the ethnic Azeri community boiled over in May 2006 when a state-run newspaper published a cartoon they believed likened them to cockroaches. The publication inspired widespread protests in ethnic Azeri-dominated regions of northern Iran and communities in Tehran. Despite their Shiite faith, ethnic Azeris mobilized in protest against what they saw as the ethnic Persian and Farsi chauvinism of the clerical regime and to agitate for greater cultural and linguistic rights (http://www.oursouthazerbaijan.com).

Although the publishers of the cartoon were quickly reprimanded and their actions were condemned by officials in Tehran, the spontaneous outburst of anger among ethnic Azeris, Iran's largest ethnic minority that shares close links to the Turkic peoples of the Caucasus and Central Asia, especially their kin in former Soviet Azerbaijan, is another example of the nascent domestic tensions that could ignite violence and unrest in Iranian society. Iranian officials blamed outside agitators, namely pan-Turkic nationalists acting on the behest of the United States, for inciting the riots (IRNA, May 25, 2006). The ethnic Azeri cause in Iran is represented by the Federal Democratic Movement of Azerbaijan and South Azerbaijan Human Rights Watch (http://www.achiq.org; http://www.hr.baybak.com).

Iran's ethnic Turkmen community, a predominantly Sunni population that inhabits northern parts of Iran along the border with Turkmenistan, appears to be following the lead of other Iranian minorities and raising its voices in protest against what it sees as a deliberate policy to stifle its cultural identity and rights, especially in regards to religion, language and education. Ethnic Turkmen are also emboldened by the plight of their kin in Iraq and their attempt to return to oil-rich Kirkuk, where they were expelled along with other minorities as part of the former Baath regime's "Arabization" program. Tehran accuses foreign elements based in Iraq and the wider Turkic world of supporting Turkmen dissent in Iran. Iranian Turkmen are represented by the Organization for Defense of the Rights of Turkmen People and the Turkmensahra Liberation Organization (http://www.azatlyk.net).

Conclusion
The issues inspiring minority ethnic and sectarian-based dissent in Iran are the result of a multiplicity of factors, only one of which can be attributed to acts of foreign intervention by outside powers. Deep-seated grievances rooted in practical issues, such as Iran's inability to integrate entire communities into its social, political and economic fabric, is a case in point. Iran also has to adapt to the changing geopolitical landscape in the region that is seeing the rise of new centers of power and influence, such as Iraqi Kurdistan, which will reverberate well beyond their borders by serving as an inspiration to underserved communities to assert themselves, even through violence.
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2373589
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:17 pm
Tit-For-Tat Proxy Wars
By Cernig

While the Bush administration are mounting a full court press to paint Iran as the instigator of all that is going wrong in Iraq, let us not forget that accusations and evidence for proxy wars flow both ways.

Today, Newsweek has an exclusive report on just one part of the alleged U.S. proxy war on Iran - backing for the PJAK Kurdish separatist terror group. Iran has been shelling suspected PJAK strongholds in Kurdish Iraq recently, a possible flash-point for war with the U.S.

Quote:
The conflict has traditionally been "totally local, with little chance of spreading," Hiltermann says, before adding one caveat: "unless the U.S. starts to support PJAK, and you get a proxy war inside Iran." In that case, he insists, "Iran will retaliate. [And] not necessarily in the Qandil Mountains."

With tensions rising between the U.S. and Iran, could this battle in Kurdistan's hills set off a larger conflagration? Iran insists that the PJAK militants are armed and supported by the U.S. and Israel, an accusation that both countries deny. Yet at least some recent reports have suggested that the U.S. and Israel might be doing just that in an effort to weaken the regime in Tehran as it pursues its goal of becoming a nuclear power. A report in The New Yorker late last year by investigative reporter Seymour Hersh quoted a consultant with ties to the Pentagon as saying that Israel was providing PJAK guerillas with "equipment and training," and that the Kurdish militants had been given a list of Iranian targets of interest to the U.S.


Hersh isn't the only one. There have been reports of Israeli interrogators working with the U.S. in Iraq as well as Israeli training for Kurdish militias.

Newsweek reports that the PJAK deny being armed by the U.S. and Israel, although they wouldn't be averse to such a thing and have had contact "at a high level" with the Bush administration. However, the PJAK are closely connected to another Kurdish terror group, the PKK, which is mostly active in Turkey. The PKK's attacks in Turkey have raised the very real probability of a Turkish cross-border military operation into Iraq, which would be disastrous for the U.S. military presence there. Turkey, like Iran, has also reportedly shelled suspected terrorist positions inside Iraq but to date the Bush administration have done little about Kurdish support for the terror group.

Suspicions that the Bush administration is covertly aiding the PJAK - and thereby the PKK - as a proxy for attacks on Iran can only be strengthened by news that American weapons missing in Iraq as part of Petreaus' "kick em out of helicopters" malfeasance have turned up in the hands of PKK terrorists.

But the PKK and PJAK aren't the only terror groups the U.S. is alleged to be helping. There have been persistent and credible reports that the cossetted MeK terror group - formerly Saddam's bully-boys but now kept under minimal supervision by Coalition forces - have also been used as proxies by the U.S. for attacks in Iran.

The media outwith Iran gives little coverage to attacks and deaths inside that nation by groups using terrorist tactics - but casualties probably equal or surpass those from alleged Iranian activities in Iraq. American use of proxies to fight their undeclared enemy also seems to predate reports of violence in Iraq attributed to Iranian action.

While I've no doubt that the superior message machine of the administration will continue to build a narrative which says Iran is the only evil aggressor in the Iraq story, there's much more to the tale than meets the eye. There really is no moral high ground to claim, only political spin of intelligence in support of a pre-determined agenda.
http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/09/tit-for-tat-proxy-wars.html
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:30 pm
PM Erdogan to press Olmert to give up supporting Iraqi Kurds

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will bring the issue of Israeli experts' training of military forces in the autonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq to the agenda in his talks with his Israeli counterpart, Ehud Olmert, scheduled to take place today in the British capital.

A spokesperson for Olmert, who arrived in Paris on Sunday, announced on Monday that he will meet with Erdogan today in London. Erdogan departed yesterday from Ankara for London for an official visit during which he will also have talks with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Although Olmert's spokesperson said in Paris that talks between the Israeli and Turkish leaders would focus on Iran's nuclear ambitions and Israeli-Palestinian peace moves, a senior Turkish governmental official, speaking with Today's Zaman on Monday on condition of anonymity, said Erdogan was carrying Turkish intelligence reports concerning Israeli activity in northern Iraq -- where Israeli experts have been training Iraqi Kurdish military forces -- to London. He will urge Olmert to put an end to these activities, at a time when Turkey intends to launch a military operation into northern Iraq to tackle the presence of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) there.

In November 2006, Pulitzer Prize-winning, leading American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh wrote that the PKK's Iranian offshoot, the Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan (PJAK), which has been behind a string of deadly attacks on security forces in northwestern Iran in recent months, received support from the US as well as Israel, which fears Iran's nuclear ambitions.
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=125300
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:34 pm
What can one say about the Bush administration Rolling Eyes

U.S. cannot account for billion-dollar Iraq contract
23 Oct 2007 04:01:17 GMT
Source: Reuters
More By David Morgan

WASHINGTON, Oct 23 (Reuters) - The State Department does not know specifically what it received for a billion-dollar contract with security firm DynCorp International to provide training services for Iraqi police, a U.S. watchdog agency said on Tuesday.

The Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) said it was forced to suspend its audit of the DynCorp contract after administration officials told investigators they had no confidence in their own accounting records.

The inspector general said the agency had not validated the accuracy of invoices received before October 2006 and described bills and supporting documents as being in disarray.

Among the problems identified before the audit was suspended were duplicate payments, the purchase of a never-used $1.8 million X-ray scanner and payments of $387,000 to house DynCorp officials in hotels rather than other available accommodation.

The inspector general blamed the problems on long-standing contract administration problems at the State Department agency responsible for the contract -- the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, or INL.

"As a result, INL does not know specifically what it received for most of the $1.2 billion in expenditures under its DynCorp contract for the Iraqi Police Training Program. INL's prior lack of controls created an environment vulnerable to waste and fraud," SIGIR said in an interim review.

The report coincides with a controversy over the use of private security firms in Iraq, particularly Blackwater USA, which is under scrutiny over a Sept. 16 shooting incident in Baghdad in which 17 people were killed.

The Pentagon employs at least 7,300 security contractors in Iraq and the State Department thousands more. U.S. officials say they are needed to free up soldiers for other tasks.

POLICE TRAINING
INL agreed with the inspector general's overall findings and has taken steps to address the problems, the report said. The inspector general hopes to resume its audit before January, once corrective action has been taken.

But officials told the inspector general that it could take three to five years to review and reconcile all invoices and validate all property records.

DynCorp spokesman Gregory Lagana said the contract dealt with a complex program set up quickly in the aftermath of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. But he said both the State Department and DynCorp had made improvements in its administration.

The State Department agency awarded the contract to DynCorp in February 2004. The agreement covers housing, food, security, facilities, training support systems and law enforcement specialists for Iraqi civilian police training.

INL had agreed to pay DynCorp a total of $1.34 billion for police training services in Iraq, as of Aug. 23, 2007. Actual expenditures stood at $1.22 billion.

The report said DynCorp did not provide data to support travel and housing charges, while documents to support other expenses were presented in "an unmanageable format."

DynCorp gave the law enforcement agency a $108,000 check after officials sought a review of invoices and documents related to business travel expenses, the report said.

Lagana said DynCorp proposed housing senior executives in hotels partly for security reasons and that the proposal had been accepted by the government. He described other shortcomings as "human errors" for which the company routinely reimburses the State Department.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22450778.htm
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:35 pm
DynCorp?

Sounds like something out of a bad 80's movie.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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