THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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Saddam Hussein
president of Iraq (1979-2003), whose brutal rule was marked by costly and unsuccessful wars against neighbouring countries.

Hussein, Saddam Britannica Book of the Year 2007
Arab nationalist leader (b. April 28, 1937, Tikrit, Iraq?-d. Dec. 30, 2006, Baghdad, Iraq), reduced Iraq to a state of impoverishment and devastation during his 24 years (1979-2003) as the country's ...

Hussein, Saddam Britannica Book of the Year 2004
By early 2003 Iraqi Pres. Saddam Hussein, the Arab nationalist leader who had become infamous for atrocities against his people and who, in 24 years in power, had reduced Iraq to a state of ...

Iraq
country of southwestern Asia.

IRAQ Britannica Book of the Year 1995
A republic of southwestern Asia, Iraq has a short coastline on the Persian Gulf. Area: 435,052 sq km (167,975 sq mi). Pop. (1994 est.): 19,869,000. Cap.: Baghdad. Monetary unit: Iraqi dinars, with ...

IRAQ Britannica Book of the Year 1997
A republic of southwestern Asia, Iraq has a short coastline on the Persian Gulf. Area: 435,052 sq km (167,975 sq mi). Pop. (1996 est.): 21,422,000. Cap.: Baghdad. Monetary unit: Iraqi dinar, with ...

IRAQ Britannica Book of the Year 1996
A republic of southwestern Asia, Iraq has a short coastline on the Persian Gulf. Area: 435,052 sq km (167,975 sq mi). Pop. (1995 est.): 20,413,000. Cap.: Baghdad. Monetary unit: Iraqi dinar, with ...

Iraq Britannica Book of the Year 2004
By the end of 2002, Iraq had announced that it would cooperate with the inspectors on the United Nations Monitoring, Verification, and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) on weapons of mass destruction ...

Iraq Britannica Book of the Year 2003
The hard-line policy of the United States toward Iraq escalated dramatically after Jan. 29, 2002, when Pres. George W. Bush, addressing Congress in the annual state of the union speech, accused ...

Iraq Britannica Book of the Year 2002
In the wake of the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on Sept. 11, 2001, Iraq was virtually alone among countries in failing to offer official condolences to the U.S. In line with his adversarial ...

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/mostert/050117

87% fewer violent deaths annually in Iraq now than under Saddam Hussein

Mary Mostert
January 17, 2005
…

So, the mostly American liberation of Iraq dropped the rate of violent deaths from 50,000 a year under Saddam Hussein to 6,825 a year with the Americans in Baghdad. What Kennedy has labeled as American "savagery" has REDUCED deaths from violence in Iraq by 87%.

I read the article you linked - 1996 year in review. It did not go into detail about how the violent deaths, which you claim eclipse those of years of warfare, took place.

Cycloptichorn

Monday, Oct. 08, 2007
Has the US Ceded Southern Iraq?
By Mark Kukis/Baghdad

U.S. military officers in Iraq often wonder about the possible presence of Iranian operatives in cities south of Baghdad like Karbala and Najaf, two key strongholds for Shi'ite militias thought to have links to Tehran. Many soldiers believe those two cities, home to more than 1.5 million people altogether, are where Shi'ite militants gather, train and arm themselves with help from Iran for attacks against U.S. forces farther north. Some intelligence even suggests that Iran's elite military force, the Revolutionary Guard, has opened training camps in the area for Iraqi guerrillas. But getting a clear picture of the happenings there and in other cities in that region is hard for one simple reason: U.S. troops don't go there anymore.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown this week announced his plan to reduce the British force around the southern city of Basra from 5,000 to 2,500 by next spring. Drawing less attention, however, is the extent to which American forces have quietly withdrawn from the rest of southern Iraq. By so doing, the U.S. is ceding huge swaths of territory to shaky provincial governments that have to face increasingly powerful Shi'ite militias very much alone.

Small contingents of U.S. soldiers enter Karbala and Najaf only for brief visits with local officials these days, and much of the rest of southern Iraq has no American troops at all. Focused on saving Baghdad, U.S. forces keep up a regular presence with patrols and combat outposts chiefly around the southern reaches of the capital. Meanwhile, the drawdown of British forces in Basra ?- where the troops have relocated to the local airport outside the city ?- leaves yet another southern city, with a population of roughly 2 million, unattended by the U.S.-led coalition. That means virtually all of the vast, populous and oil-rich territory stretching from Karbala to Basra is up for grabs.

Since 2004, American soldiers have treaded lightly in southern Iraq, even though all the territory north of Basra has been ostensibly the responsibility of U.S. forces. An uneasy truce prevailed in the area between U.S. forces and the Mahdi Army, the militia headed by Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Both sides seemed eager to avoid a repeat of the open clashes that erupted in 2004 in Karbala and Najaf, where Sadr's militia holds sway. So U.S. troops generally stayed away.

In the fall of 2005, U.S. troops handed bases in Karbala and Najaf to Iraqi military units. As of late 2006, the only U.S. soldiers in Karbala were a small team of Army trainers and civil affairs officers working with local officials and area police. That ended in January, however, when an attack by unknown gunmen left five U.S. soldiers dead. Since then, all the population centers in southern Iraq have become virtual blind spots for U.S. forces struggling to keep tabs on the weapons and fighters thought to be moving through the area. The military's provincial reconstruction teams carry on some work in southern Iraq. And in Diwaniya, a town east of Najaf, military trainers continue to work with local security forces. But for all practical purposes the Americans and the British have essentially left a region quickly becoming more turbulent in the wake of their departure.

In recent months, U.S. military officials overseeing southern Iraq have gotten sketchy information indicating that Iranian operatives may be entering Iraq to train Iraqi guerrillas at sites in and around Karbala and Najaf. American commanders in Iraq have long asserted that Iran operates guerrilla training facilities for Iraqi militants near Tehran. Indeed, Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, says the Iranian ambassador in Baghdad, Hassan Kazemi-Qomi, is in reality a member of the Revolutionary Guards. Increasingly, U.S. soldiers are wondering if handlers from Iran's elite security forces have begun schooling and organizing fighters in the very areas American forces nominally control.

Capt. Brandon Thompson, an intelligence officer at a combat outpost roughly 30 miles south of Baghdad, says the reports are plausible ?- but not proven. "I think it's very possible that individuals from Iran come in and train groups," says Thompson, an officer at Forward Operating Base Kalsu about 30 miles south of Baghdad. "But with no facts yet to back it up, the assessment would be that it's a good possibility."

Outwardly, the main cities in the south are in the hands of Iraqi authorities answering to the central government in Baghdad. In reality, Karbala, Najaf, Basra and the provinces they sit in are now a struggling ground between the Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade, a rival Shi'ite militia also though to have links to Iran. American forces remained on the sidelines as the Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade waged bloody campaigns against one another across southern Iraq this summer. On August 28, gunmen from the Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade battled in the streets of Karbala for hours in fighting that left more than 50 people dead. And a series of assassinations of local leaders across southern Iraq in recent months is widely thought to be a campaign by the Mahdi Army to kill off Iraqi officials with links to the political wing of the Badr Brigade, the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council. Even Iraq's most revered Shi'ite religious figure, the reclusive Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has been caught up in the violence; several of his aides have been gunned down near his home in Najaf.

Last weekend Sadr and the leader of the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, announced a truce. In a statement aired with much publicity, the two leaders pledged to cease violence. Whether the pact holds remains to be seen, especially in Basra. Tensions between the two factions there have lately been especially high following the British pullout to the airport outside the city. Regardless, U.S. forces are unlikely to play a meaningful role in shaping the outcome. With no evident plans to reenter southern areas, the U.S.-led coalition leaves the fate of some of Iraq's most important territory to others.

things will likely get even more complicated after the U.S. house of representatives and senate vote in favour of the "genocide" resolution .
if in retaliation turkey should decide not to allow U.S. airforce to land at bases in turkey it will likely impact U.S. operations in the middle-east - if it's not one thing , it's another !
hbg

source :
U.S. VOTE ON TURKISH GENOCIDE

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=Saddam+Hussein+Iraq&ct=&searchSubmit.x=10&searchSubmit.y=8


IRAQ

Year in Review 1996
...

Events in northern Iraq took a dramatic turn for the worse on August 22. The KDP, fearing an accord between Iran and the PUK, formed an alliance with Hussein. On August 31, apparently responding to an appeal from Barzani, the Iraqi government seized the Kurdish city of Irbil. After a short but bloody purge of Hussein's enemies in Irbil, Iraq withdrew its forces from the city, leaving its administration to its new ally, Barzani. On September 9 Barzani pushed his Kurdish troops farther south and without much bloodshed occupied the city of As-Sulaymaniyah, a stronghold of Talabani and the rival PUK. Hussein then lifted a trade and travel ban that had separated the north from the rest of the country. On October 23 efforts sponsored by the U.S. to mediate the conflict between the KDP and the PUK achieved a shaky cease-fire.

The events of August through October, together with the entente between Barzani and Hussein, opened the door to the penetration of the Iraqi government forces into the northern Kurdish areas and put an end to the presence in the north of the Iraqi National Council, an umbrella opposition group composed of Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims and Kurds.

The capture of Irbil by Iraqi forces triggered a strong response from the United States, which saw the move as a violation of the cease-fire accord signed after the 1991 Persian Gulf War. The U.S. government on September 3 announced a northward extension of the southern no-fly zone over Iraq from latitude 32° N to latitutde 33° N. This act further weakened Iraq's sovereignty in its southern region. Hussein denounced this move and rejected the no-fly zones. The U.S. then launched cruise missiles on military targets in the new no-fly zone, and Iraq fired missiles on what it claimed were U.S. planes patrolling the extended zone. On September 13 Iraq reversed its position, announcing that it would temporarily suspend attacks on U.S. or coalition aircraft in the zone, and the crisis died down.

...

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/mostert/050117

87% fewer violent deaths annually in Iraq now than under Saddam Hussein

Mary Mostert
January 17, 2005

…

Iraq, a country approximately the size of California, but with only 2/3rd its population, suffered more than a million violent deaths under Saddam Hussein's regime. That would average out at about 50,000 deaths a year in a population of 25 million before the Americans got involved. In the two years since the Americans have been fighting in Iraq, 13,650 Iraqis, have been killed, many of them by terrorist attacks by their own countrymen. Others were by military action. That averages out at 6, 825 deaths per year in a population of 25 million.

So, the mostly American liberation of Iraq dropped the rate of violent deaths from 50,000 a year under Saddam Hussein to 6,825 a year with the Americans in Baghdad. What Kennedy has labeled as American "savagery" has REDUCED deaths from violence in Iraq by 87%.

Not bad for a quagmire.

VIOLENT DEATHS IN IRAQ 2003-2006

2006 23,482
2005 12,286*
2004 12,286*
2003 12,286*
TOTAL = 60,311

* Average per year 2003-2005.

60,341 / 4 = 15,085 VIOLENT DEATHS PER YEAR IN IRAQ 2003-2006.

In 2007 as of August 31 (8 months / 12 months = 0.67 years), there were 20,452 VIOLENT DEATHS IN IRAQ.

60,341 + 20,452 = 80,793; 80,793 / (4.67) = 17,300 VIOLENT DEATHS PER YEAR IN IRAQ 2003-AUG 2007.

Upon what information does Brittanica derive those casualty statistics?

Unsourced statistics are useless, whether it's you personally or you outsourcing the unsourcing to someone else.

You should be able to find more then one source, given that you claim over 50k people were murdered in one small event, as compared to a long war. But you don't seem to be able to.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Upon what information does Brittanica derive those casualty statistics?

Unsourced statistics are useless, whether it's you personally or you outsourcing the unsourcing to someone else.

You should be able to find more then one source, given that you claim over 50k people were murdered in one small event, as compared to a long war. But you don't seem to be able to.

Cycloptichorn

You have just convinced me that you are unable to read with understanding. Sorry, I cannot provide you the remedial reading course you obviously require.

Mary Mostert's 50,000 number of murdered people, is an average per year over the years 1979-2002, not the number of people who were murdered in "one small event." By the way, if 50,000 were to be murdered in one event, that is certainly not a small event!

I don't know how Britannica does any part of its job. Likewise, I don't know how you come up with any of the allegations you make, nor do I know how your sources come up with any of the allegations they make. However, based on my personal experience with Britannica and many other historical sources, I have come to the conclusion that Britannica is a reliable source. On the other hand, based on my personal experience with you, your sources, and my other sources, I have come to the conclusion that you and your sources are unreliable.

ican711nm wrote:

VIOLENT DEATHS IN IRAQ 2003-2006

2006 23,482
2005 12,286*
2004 12,286*
2003 12,286*
TOTAL = 60,311

* Average per year 2003-2005.

60,341 / 4 = 15,085 VIOLENT DEATHS PER YEAR IN IRAQ 2003-2006.

In 2007 as of August 31 (8 months / 12 months = 0.67 years), there were 20,452 VIOLENT DEATHS IN IRAQ.

60,341 + 20,452 = 80,793; 80,793 / (4.67) = 17,300 VIOLENT DEATHS PER YEAR IN IRAQ 2003-AUG 2007.

Bull ****. You know that those numbers aren't correct in the slightest.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

VIOLENT DEATHS IN IRAQ 2003-2006

2006 23,482
2005 12,286*
2004 12,286*
2003 12,286*
TOTAL = 60,311

* Average per year 2003-2005.

60,341 / 4 = 15,085 VIOLENT DEATHS PER YEAR IN IRAQ 2003-2006.

In 2007 as of August 31 (8 months / 12 months = 0.67 years), there were 20,452 VIOLENT DEATHS IN IRAQ.

60,341 + 20,452 = 80,793; 80,793 / (4.67) = 17,300 VIOLENT DEATHS PER YEAR IN IRAQ 2003-AUG 2007.

Bull ****. You know that those numbers aren't correct in the slightest.

Cycloptichorn

Steer excrement, I know that your allegation isn't correct in the slightest. These 2003-2007 numbers are based on excerpts from IBC's numbers.

By the way, are you a Soros gang volunteer shill, or are you a Soros gang paid shill?