THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

This is almost too funny to contemplate.

Iraqi PM: Criticism 'signals' militants

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 49 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Iraq's beleaguered prime minister accused his American critics on Sunday of underestimating how hard it is to rebuild his country and failing to appreciate his government's achievements "such as stopping the civil and sectarian war."

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said told reporters that some of the criticism from Washington sends "signals to terrorists luring them into thinking that the security situation in the country is not good." He offered no specific examples.

He also said U.S. critics may not know "the size of the destruction that Iraq passed through" and do not appreciate "the big role of the Iraqi government and its achievements, such as stopping the civil and sectarian war."

The Democratic-controlled Congress is growing increasingly frustrated with the slow pace of political reform in Iraq. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, have called for al-Maliki to be replaced.

U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and the top American military commander, Gen. David Petraeus, are to report to Congress during the week of Sept. 10 on the degree of progress achieved since President Bush ordered nearly 30,000 more troops to Iraq.

A draft report by the Government Accountability Office concluded Iraq has satisfied only three of 18 benchmarks set by Congress for measuring progress and partially met two others.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

You are the prime a2k member who fails to understand the quagmire that Bush built. You twist all the available evidence of more violence and deaths in Iraq by your inability to understand basic math. More dead is more dead no matter how you wish to rationalize it. Saddam is also dead. Death rates are up under Bush - even after Saddam was put to death.

Bush has also been successful in spreading terrorism around the world; nothing Saddam would have accomplished in his wildest wet dream.

Total violent deaths in Iraq while Clinton was President (1993-2000) = 569,916.

Total violent deaths in Iraq while Bush has been President (January 2001 - June 2007) = 110,929.

Assuming the violent death rate in Iraq remains the same as July 2006 -June 2007 for the rest of Bush's term, then

Total violent deaths in Iraq while Bush was President (2001- 2008) will be = 110,929 + 46,332 = 157,261.

Is Clinton responsible for those 569,916 violent Iraqi deaths that occurred during his administration?
OF COURSE NOT! SADDAM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE VIOLENT DEATHS.

Will Bush be responsible for those 157,261 violent Iraqi deaths that are projected to have occurred during his administration?
OF COURSE NOT! AL-QAEDA ET AL WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE VIOLENT DEATHS.

Your seemingly daily, blame-bush-itis marks you an accomplice to those deaths under Bush, in that you and the rest of your loser crowd are giving al-Qaeda et al encouragement to persevere in the expectation the USA will eventually quit and lose.

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ican, Your interpretation of deaths under Clinton and Bush isn't even relevant. Clinton did not kill or was responsible for those deaths, but Bush IS responsible for the increasing death toll.

Your twisting of facts abandons simple common sense.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

...

Iraqi PM: Criticism 'signals' militants

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 49 minutes ago

...

A draft report by the Government Accountability Office concluded Iraq has satisfied only three of 18 benchmarks set by Congress for measuring progress and partially met two others.

That certainly is a whole lot better than no progress!

The USA has occupied Iraq for only 4 years and 4 months. In Japan and Germany after WWII, the USA occupied those countries for more than 7 years, and the Japanese and German peoples were not being mass murdered at any time during that occupation by anyone in those countries. Yes, now we have a far more complex problem to solve, but that does not mean that after only 4 years and 4 months we can rationally conclude the problem is unsolvable. Let's see what things look like after a total of 7 years of USA occupation.

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ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

...

Iraqi PM: Criticism 'signals' militants

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 49 minutes ago

...

A draft report by the Government Accountability Office concluded Iraq has satisfied only three of 18 benchmarks set by Congress for measuring progress and partially met two others.

That certainly is a whole lot better than no progress!

The USA has occupied Iraq for only 4 years and 4 months. In Japan and Germany after WWII, the USA occupied those countries for more than 7 years, and the Japanese and German peoples were not being mass murdered at any time during that occupation by anyone in those countries. Yes, now we have a far more complex problem to solve, but that does not mean that after only 4 years and 4 months we can rationally conclude the problem is unsolvable. Let's see what things look like after a total of 7 years of USA occupation.

Another irrelevance by the master of irrelevance.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, Your interpretation of deaths under Clinton and Bush isn't even relevant. Clinton did not kill or was responsible for those deaths, but Bush IS responsible for the increasing death toll.

Your twistin of facts abandons simple common sense.

Your corruptions of facts and logic are irrational. Bush will be no more responsible for those violent deaths in Iraq that will have occurred during his 8-year term, than is Clinton responsible for those violent deaths in Iraq that occurred during his 8-year term. In both cases, the perpetrators of those violent death will be the actual deliberate killers, and not anyone trying to prevent those murders.

Your hatred of Bush is rapidly leading you to mental illness. Please, just for your own sake, get counseling. In another 16 months Bush will be replaced. With or without Bush, we must all squarely face the problem created by those mass murdering and not by those trying competently or incompetently to stop mass murdering.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

ican711nm wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:

...

Iraqi PM: Criticism 'signals' militants

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 49 minutes ago

...

A draft report by the Government Accountability Office concluded Iraq has satisfied only three of 18 benchmarks set by Congress for measuring progress and partially met two others.

That certainly is a whole lot better than no progress!

The USA has occupied Iraq for only 4 years and 4 months. In Japan and Germany after WWII, the USA occupied those countries for more than 7 years, and the Japanese and German peoples were not being mass murdered at any time during that occupation by anyone in those countries. Yes, now we have a far more complex problem to solve, but that does not mean that after only 4 years and 4 months we can rationally conclude the problem is unsolvable. Let's see what things look like after a total of 7 years of USA occupation.

Another irrelevance by the master of irrelevance.

What I posted is clearly relevant!

Perhaps, more physical as well as mental exercise may help you get healthy enough to understand that.

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ican711nm wrote:

Your seemingly daily, blame-bush-itis marks you an accomplice to those deaths under Bush, in that you and the rest of your loser crowd are giving al-Qaeda et al encouragement to persevere in the expectation the USA will eventually quit and lose.

So what shall we do with these traitors who have the temerity to criticise Mr Bush?

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realjohnboy wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Your seemingly daily, blame-bush-itis marks you an accomplice to those deaths under Bush, in that you and the rest of your loser crowd are giving al-Qaeda et al encouragement to persevere in the expectation the USA will eventually quit and lose.

So what shall we do with these traitors who have the temerity to criticise Mr Bush?

Buy them more oat meal to eat. Razz

For crap sake, they are not traitors. Just incompetents. Help them become more competent. Show them more compassion while you're helping them.

Try tough love!

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So we stay into infinity in order to not give any encouragement to those in Iraq who are involved in violence? Or we lie like you all do in order trick the insurgents into thinking they are loosing? There is no progress and there won't be any progress unless the Iraqis want it. There has not any progress and the violence between the factions is just as bad as ever. Malaki has just learned "Washington speak" is all.
read here

Meanwhile our resources are getting sucked dry not to mention other priories being shoved aside in order to feed this meaningless war. And Bush is asking for more money. The military has to do everything and try ever trick in order to get recruits to join. I mean who wants to send their son or worse daughter off to war in Iraq to be killed or maimed or come back with stress related disorders? We have to bribe them to join.

Bush Wants $50 Billion More for Iraq War

$20,000 Is Lure to Leave Within Days

Thousands of veterans return with mental illness

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It's not only sons and daughters, but siblings, parents and friends.

I'm glad our son who was considering another term in the US Air Force decided not to. He made the rank of major in 13 years of service which I understand is pretty good for anyone.

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We can consider this "progress," but it doesn't answer the question of the Shiite militias and their infiltration into the Iraqi army.

British troops leave Basra base in Iraq

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ican wrote again :

Quote:

The USA has occupied Iraq for only 4 years and 4 months. In Japan and Germany after WWII, the USA * occupied those countries for more than 7 years, and the Japanese and German peoples were not being mass murdered at any time during that occupation by anyone in those countries. Yes, now we have a far more complex problem to solve, but that does not mean that after only 4 years and 4 months we can rationally conclude the problem is unsolvable. Let's see what things look like after a total of 7 years of USA occupation.

* it might be appropriate to say "the allied forces"

i have more than once given an account of how the occupation of germany was handled ; i don't think i need to repeat myself .
all countries - including the germans - directed ALL (!) their efforts towards winning the war , and the allies succeeded .

imo the current effort of the U.S. was simply never sufficient to win the war in iraq (and afghanistan and the various other countries supporting the taleban , al qaeda and other islamic extremists ) .
enough U.S. generals had foreseen this and given their assessments , but it is quite clear that their assessments/advice were not welcome .

i have some doubt that the general public in the U.S. will give the next president/congress the benefit of the doubt and support an increased and further prolonged war effort with resulting increased loss of live and increased budgets (read : TAXES !) .

there were - and still are , of course- a fair number of generals , diplomats and other "scorned" experts that do not believe islamic extremists (freedom-fighters ?) can be defeated militarily .
these people have stated often enough that a more important task would be to support the non-violent muslims - which are so far still in the majority !
what will happen if the non-violent muslims get defeated or throw their lot in with the violent groups ? i would not even want to think about it !!!
to some extent we are seeing in afghanistan and pakistan what happens when moderate muslims see their choice as having to turn to the taleban and al qaeda for help , to be able to feed their families and escape discrimination by corrupt government officials - it's not a good outlook imo .
hbg

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Quote:

Bush makes surprise visit to Iraq."President Bush made a surprise visit to Iraq on Monday, using the war zone as a backdrop to argue his case that the buildup of U.S. troops is helping stabilizing the nation." On his way to the APEC summit in Australia, Bush made a detour to Iraq, landing at an air base in a remote part of Anbar province. Accompanied by security aides Condoleezza Rice, Robert Gates, and Stephen Hadley, Bush's visit came just hours after British forces completed their pullout from Basra. "Residents of Basra cheered the withdrawal."

links embedded in article at the source

So Bush is pissing off Malaki; a guy he ushered in, by going to a Sunni stronghold. The very insurgents responsible for killing most of our troops and thousands of Iraqis. (Some democracy.) The plan is obvious. They are worried about Iran so they are siding with the Sunnis and Saudi Arabia.

The Enemy of My Enemy

Americans pushing to stop Ahmadinejad's Iraq visit

Quote:

Sawt al-Iraq reports in Arabic that Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has pledged not to allow Iraq to become a base for regional or international powers to settle scores. (This announcement seems to me to be an attempt to forewarn the Bush administration that it may not use Iraq as a base for an attack on Iran).

source

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revel wrote:

So we stay into infinity in order to not give any encouragement to those in Iraq who are involved in violence? Or we lie like you all do in order trick the insurgents into thinking they are loosing? There is no progress and there won't be any progress unless the Iraqis want it. There has not any progress and the violence between the factions is just as bad as ever. Malaki has just learned "Washington speak" is all.
read here

Meanwhile our resources are getting sucked dry not to mention other priories being shoved aside in order to feed this meaningless war.

...

Revel, These phrases of yours suggest you may be a victim of the hate-bush-psychosis believed to be caused by the soros virus:

"stay into infinity" (4 years and 4 months ain't infinity and neither is twice, three times, four times, or even 5 times that);

"There has not [been] any progress" (yes there has; 3 out of 18 benchmarks ain't much, but they ain't nothin' either);

"our resources are getting sucked dry" (Our private economy is buzzin' along nicely at more than 10 trillion per year);

"this meaningless war" (eliminating one or two or more al-Qaeda sanctuaries ain't meaningless).

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ican: Revel, These phrases of yours suggest you may be a victim of the hate-bush-psychosis believed to be caused by the soros virus:

"stay into infinity" (4 years and 4 months ain't infinity and neither is twice, three times, four times, or even 5 times that);

"There has not [been] any progress" (yes there has; 3 out of 18 benchmarks ain't much, but they ain't nothin' either);

"our resources are getting sucked dry" (Our private economy is buzzin' along nicely at more than 10 trillion per year);

"this meaningless war" (eliminating one or two or more al-Qaeda sanctuaries ain't meaningless).

Is your position anything like "love-Bush psychosis" no matter what?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

ican: Revel, These phrases of yours suggest you may be a victim of the hate-bush-psychosis believed to be caused by the soros virus:

"stay into infinity" (4 years and 4 months ain't infinity and neither is twice, three times, four times, or even 5 times that);

"There has not [been] any progress" (yes there has; 3 out of 18 benchmarks ain't much, but they ain't nothin' either);

"our resources are getting sucked dry" (Our private economy is buzzin' along nicely at more than 10 trillion per year);

"this meaningless war" (eliminating one or two or more al-Qaeda sanctuaries ain't meaningless).

Is your position anything like "love-Bush psychosis" no matter what?

No! My position since early 2005 has been the dislike-Bush-incompetence allergy.

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ican:

Quote:

Revel, These phrases of yours suggest you may be a victim of the hate-bush-psychosis believed to be caused by the soros virus:

Ican, I'll put this as nice as I can; which lately hasn't been that nice. Anyway, I am not interested in your obversations concerning anything about me because I do not consider your observations credible.

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just providing a cross-reference to the :ARMED FORCES JOURNAL

i don't think i want to repeat the whole article here .
quite a revealing article imo .
hbg

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About those benchmarks met: Read Here

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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