THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

hamburger wrote:

...

imo in the end it comes down to one thing : MONEY (spelled : M O N E Y),
how much more money will the united states/canada have to sink into iraq/afghanistan ?
will there have to be higher taxes ?
where is the additional money going to come from : higher taxes - higher debt - cutback in other services to its citizens - inheritance from the rich uncle (not likely) .
hbg

The additional money will come from lowering tax rates and/or reducing welfare.

A gross operating surplus, if one occurs, is that extra revenue not originally predicted in the state's budget. A gross operating deficit, if one occurs, is the amount actual revenues falls short of the revenue predicted in the state's budget.

ican711nm wrote:

hamburger wrote:

...

imo in the end it comes down to one thing : MONEY (spelled : M O N E Y),
how much more money will the united states/canada have to sink into iraq/afghanistan ?
will there have to be higher taxes ?
where is the additional money going to come from : higher taxes - higher debt - cutback in other services to its citizens - inheritance from the rich uncle (not likely) .
hbg

The additional money will come from lowering tax rates and/or reducing welfare.

So, you propose we pay for several more years of war... by lowering taxes?

You do realize that the whole Voodoo Economics thing is a lie, a lie intended to make the rich, richer, at the expense of the nation?

Cycloptichorn

ican711nm wrote:

A gross operating surplus, if one occurs, is that extra revenue not originally predicted in the state's budget. A gross operating deficit, if one occurs, is the amount actual revenues falls short of the revenue predicted in the state's budget.

An intersting definition of what constitutes a "surplus." No mention of expenditures?

actaul data shows that the wealthy pay less % taxes than the poor or middle and the major reason this does not get changed is that the majority see the potential of themselves possibly becoming members of the wealthy and wanting to avoid the burden of taxation. Happy dreams.

IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 999-07
August 13, 2007
DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the death of three soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Aug. 12 in Nangarhar Province, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when an improvised explosive device detonated near their vehicle.

Killed were:

Sgt. 1st Class Jeffrey D. Kettle, 31, of Madill, Okla. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Staff Sgt. Jesse G. Clowers Jr., 27, of Herndon, Va. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Sgt. Charles B. Kitowski III, 31, of Farmers Branch, Texas. He was assigned to the 345th Psychological Operations Company, 2nd Psychological Operations Group, U.S. Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command (Airborne), Fort Bragg, N.C.

For more information on Kettle and Clowers, the media may contact the U.S. Army Special Operations Command public affairs office at (910) 432-6005.

For more information on Kitowski, the media may contact the U.S. Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command public affairs office at (910) 432-2035; after hours (910) 432-7714 (ask for the public affairs officer).

Quote:

IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 999-07
August 13, 2007
DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the death of three soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Aug. 12 in Nangarhar Province, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when an improvised explosive device detonated near their vehicle.

Killed were:

Sgt. 1st Class Jeffrey D. Kettle, 31, of Madill, Okla. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Staff Sgt. Jesse G. Clowers Jr., 27, of Herndon, Va. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Sgt. Charles B. Kitowski III, 31, of Farmers Branch, Texas. He was assigned to the 345th Psychological Operations Company, 2nd Psychological Operations Group, U.S. Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command (Airborne), Fort Bragg, N.C.

For more information on Kettle and Clowers, the media may contact the U.S. Army Special Operations Command public affairs office at (910) 432-6005.

For more information on Kitowski, the media may contact the U.S. Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command public affairs office at (910) 432-2035; after hours (910) 432-7714 (ask for the public affairs officer).

3690 and counting

DOD news release

ehBeth, I've been wondering what the casualty rate in Afghanistan was, so thanks for the link.

In Iraq, another summer of power shortages
Desperate residents of Baghdad cool off using ice, computer fans and even their cars.
By Alexandra Zavis, Times Staff Writer
August 14, 2007

Plugged in
Plugged in
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BAGHDAD ?- When the power fails and there is no gas for the generator, Mohammed Azzawi has a plan to make it through the stifling summer nights. He collects the fans from old computer hard drives and powers them with backup batteries.

Faced with their fifth summer without a regular supply of electricity, Baghdad residents have come up with some novel ways to cool off.

Decades of corruption, neglect and war have left Iraq's electricity grid on the verge of collapse. Iraq is generating enough power to meet only half the nationwide demand, and most Baghdad residents are down to an hour or two of electricity a day. The shortfalls are the worst since U.S.-led forces ousted Saddam Hussein in 2003, Electricity Ministry spokesman Aziz Shimari said.

The unreliable electricity supply is a source of constant frustration to Iraqis, who cite it as one of the biggest failings of the U.S.-led invasion. The constant blackouts become unbearable during the summer, when the mercury climbs to between 110 and 120 degrees.

Only the lucky few who live near essential services, such as hospitals and water treatment plants, receive nearly continuous power. The rest improvise.

Those who can afford it have generators. But with fuel in short supply and costing about $4 a gallon on the black market, many families can keep them on only a few hours a day.

Entrepreneurs have filled the gap. In most neighborhoods, residents can buy additional hours from a shared generator that delivers power through a web of wires running to each customer's home.

Civil servant Qais Yaseen pays nearly $50 a month for five amperes from a shared generator, enough to power a refrigerator, lights and a few fans. Running an air conditioner takes at least twice that amount.

The service is a source of constant arguments in the neighborhood. Tempers flare when the power does not kick in at the allotted time.

"Once a week, they would claim that their generator has broken down, and it takes a couple of days to fix it," Yaseen complained. "They operate less hours than agreed and always raise the price under the pretext that diesel is expensive."

The most difficult time is at night, when a bedroom can feel like a sauna. Many families still sleep on their roofs despite the roar of passing helicopters and the risk of stray bullets. The helicopters fly so low that men in this rumor-prone city began instructing their wives and daughters to cover up in long sleeves and tracksuits for fear that the American pilots were peeking at their women.

One sleep-deprived Iraqi reporter recently asked a U.S. military spokesman if they couldn't be a little quieter at night. Rear Adm. Mark Fox was apologetic but explained, "This is the time that the enemy is moving and we have a great opportunity to engage them and hopefully bring security to Iraq quicker."

Even after dark, the temperature is frequently in the 90s. Some residents pile into their air-conditioned cars to sleep. Azzawi, a west Baghdad computer engineer, uses the few hours of power he gets during the day to charge his batteries. But the fans he uses are small. To make the most of them, he douses himself in the shower, then holds them up to his wet face and belly -- giving him just enough relief to fall sleep.

Parents are buying plastic swimming pools to cool off their children. Fadil Said said he was selling about 10 of them a day at his Baghdad toy shop. Many homes don't have bathtubs, and one father confessed to sneaking into his child's pool at night when he thought no one would see him.

But even that isn't an option when there is insufficient electricity to power the city's water pumps and treatment plants.

Iraq's electricity grid was already in severe disrepair before 2003. Repairing and upgrading it have been a massive undertaking, said Col. Mike Moon, who heads the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers' electricity sector in Iraq. Although output has increased, it has been outstripped by demand as Iraqis buy satellite dishes, air coolers and other devices that have become cheaper and more widely available since Hussein's fall, Moon said.

The shortages are particularly acute in Baghdad because it is dependent on power generated in the north and south of Iraq. Only about 36% of demand is being met here, Moon said.

One of the biggest problems has been the sabotage of electricity lines and pipelines that supply the fuel needed to generate power.

Only two out of the 17 high-tension lines running into the capital are operational, said Shimari, the Electricity Ministry spokesman.

Faced with their own shortages, a number of provinces in the south and north of the country are taking more than their share of the power they generate and that passes through their network, he said.

Under Hussein, whose regime discriminated against the Shiite Muslim south and Kurdish north, Baghdad was allocated the lion's share and could count on 16 to 24 hours of electricity a day.

Frustrated residents have taken matters into their own hands. After two full days without power at the height of summer, residents of Zafaraniya, on Baghdad's southeastern outskirts, paid a visit to their local electricity office to demand an explanation. They were told that a cable needed to repair their network was not available in government warehouses.

"We bought it and paid the workers who installed it as if they were free laborers and not employed already," grumbled Salam Abdul-Wahid, a policeman who lives in the neighborhood. The cost was about $650, nearly three times what an average civil servant earns in a month, shared among 20 homes.

"It was disgusting," Abdul-Wahid said. "We need a government on the street, not behind fortified walls."

Many people are resorting to more old-fashioned ways to beat the heat, some last used during the crippling 1990s United Nations embargo. Scuffles break out when the ice cart arrives in the impoverished neighborhoods on Baghdad's east side. Residents will pay $5 for a block of ice, which they break into chips to fill a cooler so they can at least have a refreshing beverage.

Salesman Abu Karar travels to China every three to six months to stock up on goods for his market stall. But no matter how many fans he comes back with, he says he never has enough to keep up with demand.

Disgusted, he said, "I think they should close the Ministry of Electricity and give out money so that people can do something like buy generators or fuel."

Times staff writers Wail Alhafith, Zeena Kareem and Saad Khalaf and special correspondents in Baghdad contributed to this report.

...
The lack of power is a contributing factor for the insurgency. It is also the very first thing the insurgents will attack, as it represents an extremely difficult to defend target of opportunity.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
The lack of power is a contributing factor for the insurgency. It is also the very first thing the insurgents will attack, as it represents an extremely difficult to defend target of opportunity.

Cycloptichorn

Let me get this right.

You think the lack of adequate power in Baghdad contributes to the insurgency in Baghdad.

You think the insurgency's first target in Baghdad is to make the power system in Baghdad even more inadequate.

You think the insurgents in Baghdad are crazy.

So, Do you actually know what the casualty rate in Afghanistan is C.I.?

Please share it with us!

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
The lack of power is a contributing factor for the insurgency. It is also the very first thing the insurgents will attack, as it represents an extremely difficult to defend target of opportunity.

Cycloptichorn

Let me get this right.

You think the lack of adequate power in Baghdad contributes to the insurgency in Baghdad.

You think the insurgency's first target in Baghdad is to make the power system in Baghdad even more inadequate.

You think the insurgents in Baghdad are crazy.

Crazy?

Lack of power contributes to insurgency.

Insurgents attack power grid to create lack of power.

Insurgents get recruits as a result.

Which part is crazy? They get exactly what they want - more troops for the fight.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
The lack of power is a contributing factor for the insurgency. It is also the very first thing the insurgents will attack, as it represents an extremely difficult to defend target of opportunity.

Cycloptichorn

Let me get this right.

You think the lack of adequate power in Baghdad contributes to the insurgency in Baghdad.

You think the insurgency's first target in Baghdad is to make the power system in Baghdad even more inadequate.

You think the insurgents in Baghdad are crazy.

Crazy?

Lack of power contributes to insurgency.

Insurgents attack power grid to create lack of power.

Insurgents get recruits as a result.

Which part is crazy? They get exactly what they want - more troops for the fight.

Cycloptichorn

I think the so-called insurgents (i.e., opposition to the Iraq government) want more electric power, and not more troops for a fight that gets them less electric power.

On the otherhand, I think al-Qaeda wants less electric power to attract more recruits for a fight that gets them more power to remain in Iraq.