Dem wants to make the minutemen "terrorists"

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According to her own website, this woman used to be a social worker in a school district in Arizona. One of her specialties was advocating for "undocumented families". She also chaired the committee that ran the opposition to Arizona's same-sex marriage ban. That ban become the first state ban to be defeated on the ballot, in Nov. 2006.

Now this bill is specifically crafted to criminalize the activities of Minutemen, including the vast majority who do nothing but sit on the border, and call the Border Patrol when they see something. The hook is, of course, if even one of the Minutemen has ANY KIND of weapon at the time (sidearm, pocketknife, boxcutter or etc.), then the entire group are now "domestic terrorists", including the ones on another part of the border twenty miles away who don't even have a sharpened pencil.

I'm so glad we have individuals like this looking out for our rights. Aren't you?

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http://www.worldnetdaily.com

Law would make Minutemen Guilty of 'domestic terrorism'

'Patrolling to detect alleged illegal activity' while carrying any weapon would be felony

By Jay Baggett
Posted: January 20, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2007 WorldNetDaily. com

An Arizona lawmaker has introduced a bill to revise the state's statutes on organized crime and fraud by defining "domestic terrorism" in such a way that members of the Minuteman Project or other border-patrol groups could be prosecuted and forced to serve a minimum six-month jail term.

Rep. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Phoenix, introduced HB 2286 in the Arizona House on Thursday.

Sinema, formerly of the Green Party, had earlier submitted a bill asking the legislature to make changes to a law used to prosecute customers of immigrant smugglers as conspirators under Arizona's human trafficking law.

"None of us every dreamed it would be used in a co-conspirator fashion," Sinema said.

As WND reported, it was federal inaction that motivated Arizona lawmakers to approve the new law creating the crime of smuggling in 2005. Maricopa County District Attorney Andrew Thomas announced he would interpret the law to mean illegals caught with a smuggler could be prosecuted as co-conspirators if they paid a coyote to transport them across the border.

Now, Sinema is targeting border-security groups like the Minutemen with new legislation that would define anyone not formally affiliated with law enforcement, who patrolled in search of illegal activity while armed, as a domestic terrorist. If it becomes law, the bill would impose a mandatory minimum jail sentence, even if prosecutors recommend probation.

HB 2286 reads:

Sec. 2. Title 13, chapter 23, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 13-2320, to read:

13-2320. Domestic terrorism; classification

A. An individual or group of individuals commits domestic terrorism if the individual or group of individuals are not affiliated with a local, state or federal law enforcement entity and associate with another individual or group of individuals as an organization, group, corporation or company for the purpose of patrolling to detect alleged illegal activity or to individually patrol for the purpose of detecting alleged illegal activity and if the individual or group of individuals is armed with a firearm or other weapon.

B. Any city, town or county that suffers injury arising out of a violation of this section may maintain an action in superior court for the recovery of damages or for an injunction, or both. The court may award the successful party reasonable attorney fees.

C. If the court sentences the defendant to a term of probation, the court shall order that as an initial condition of probation the defendant be imprisoned in the county jail for a period of not less than six months. This jail term of incarceration shall not be deferred, deleted or otherwise suspended and shall commence on the date of sentencing. This subsection does not apply to persons who are sentenced to serve a period of incarceration in the state department of corrections.

D. A violation of this section is a class 5 felony.

Sinema and other Democrat legislators joined the ACLU and the American Friends Service Committee as legal observers during the Minutemen's project on the Arizona-Mexico border in April 2005.

"I've been monitoring the Minutemen for a year now," Sinema told vigilantewatch. org at the time, "and they're just scary."
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Well hell, according to y'all us Liberals have been terrorists for years.

The Minutemen can join forces with us.

Cycloptichorn

ps Minutemen is a stupid f*cking name for that group.

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Minutemen sucks.

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'Patrolling to detect alleged illegal activity' while carrying any weapon would be felony"

Now, I have to wonder; if such patrolling is legal in itself, and I assume it is, and carrying a weapon is also legal, which I also assume to be true, how can the two combined become a felony?

Yeah, I know. It's legal to enter an establishment selling alcohol. In many jurisdictions, it's also legal to carry a firearm. The two taken together do become a felony. Still, this sounds a little odd.

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Quote:

Patrolling to detect alleged illegal activity' while carrying any weapon would be felony

Even patrolling without a weapon should be prohibited to fanatics who call themselves minuteman and the likes.

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Well, 'should be' isn't the same as 'is'. Does it matter what they call themselves?

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

ps Minutemen is a stupid f*cking name for that group.

I think it refers to their sexual performance.

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No, it doesn't matter what they call themselves, roger. People who
go after alleged illegals like prey to be killed, need to be stopped,
period.

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Well, I think it makes a difference in how the procede in going after those alleged illegals. I don't really know if they are using violence and threats of violence, or if they are simply making reports to border patrol. If the latter, I don't see anything felonous or even misdemeanorous. Obviously, they don't share your beliefs.

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Isn't it basically a restating of the already existing anti-vigilante laws?

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Re: Dem wants to make the minutemen "terrorists"

mysteryman wrote:

....

I'm so glad we have individuals like this looking out for our rights. Aren't you?

....__

I agree wholeheartedly, mysteryman, as does everybody that believes in the rule of law. As expected, the leftie kooks and nutcases come out and poke fun of your thread.

If you think border security is bad now, just imagine the disaster of a leftie gaining the presidency, coupled with a possible Democrat Congress.

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Yeah, America needs more vigilante clowns to keep us safe from the people that pick our crops, clean our toilets and mow our lawns. Rolling Eyes

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Green Witch wrote:

Yeah, America needs more vigilante clowns to keep us safe from the people that pick our crops, clean our toilets and mow our lawns.

In case you haven't heard, we abolished slavery with the Civil War. And we clean our own toilets and mow our own lawn. Try it sometime. Either that or pay a competitive wage to legal citizens like everybody else is expected to.

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roger wrote:

Well, I think it makes a difference in how the procede in going after those alleged illegals. I don't really know if they are using violence and threats of violence, or if they are simply making reports to border patrol. If the latter, I don't see anything felonous or even misdemeanorous. Obviously, they don't share your beliefs.

Well they don't. Here in San Diego, the so called minuteman group have nothing but harassed anyone that looks remotely Mexican. The police
had to be called daily to a certain housing project where the minutemen
suspected illegal immigrants and demanded to see paperwork and
threatened those poor people verbally, and physically. None of the
minuteman groups have ever called the border patrol, they always
take it up with the alleged illegals themselves.

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Well, yeah, that sounds like a lot beyond calling in reports, especially accosting people for no reason except they happen to look hispanic, and demanding paperwork. After all this time, I won't question your word on the facts.

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CalamityJane wrote:

roger wrote:
Well, I think it makes a difference in how the procede in going after those alleged illegals. I don't really know if they are using violence and threats of violence, or if they are simply making reports to border patrol. If the latter, I don't see anything felonous or even misdemeanorous. Obviously, they don't share your beliefs.

Well they don't. Here in San Diego, the so called minuteman group have nothing but harassed anyone that looks remotely Mexican. The police
had to be called daily to a certain housing project where the minutemen
suspected illegal immigrants and demanded to see paperwork and
threatened those poor people verbally, and physically. None of the
minuteman groups have ever called the border patrol, they always
take it up with the alleged illegals themselves.

I have serious doubts about this.
I am from San Diego,my brother is a member of the San Diego PD,and my mom and sister are both social workers for San Diego county.
None of them have heard about this,so your report may not be totally valid.

As for the minutemen being vigilantes,they dont fit the legal definition.

But either way,it is revealing to see that the majority of you dont believe in allowing people the right to peacefully assemble,if they disagree with you.

Its revealing to see that so many of you would deny the minutemen their rights,just because they happen to want to stop illegal immigration.

Also,I would point out this...

Quote:

Amendment II - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

In case you dont recognize that,it is the second amendment to the US Constitution.

Now this...

Quote:

26. Bearing arms

Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

Is section 26 of the Arizona state Constitution.

And since Arizona does allow the carrying of concealed weapons,and since doing so is not a felony,it is interesting to see that so many of you think that part of the US and AZ state Constitutions are meaningless and shouldnt apply to those that you just disagree with.

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Well, one can be living in San Diego and be completely oblivious and ignorant to such things, especially when one is pro-minuteman and disregards any human rights towards the Mexican population.

The Union Tribune newspaper has many articles on it in its archives,
you should check that.

These are just excerpts of articles there at various dates

Quote:

Minutemen in Vista recently harassed day laborers and Latino store owners at a popular day-labor site at a Vista shopping center, said Sylvia Ramos with Vista's Coalition of Justice, Peace and Dignity, a human-rights group.

Patrols of day-labor sites and monitoring of camps where immigrant workers live in crude shanty homes will continue in Vista, Fallbrook, Ramona, Poway, Carlsbad, Oceanside and Escondido, the groups' members said.

"We need to get on with the job the president will not do," Lisauskas said.

Quote:

Two migrant people were shot under mysterious circumstances last week in the border region where the Minutemen have been patrolling. One was shot in Mexico and one was shot inside the US. While "Mexican authorities" have claimed that "bandits" were behind it, the victims were quick to point out that nothing was stolen from them. This strange circumstance is added to by the fact that these "bandits" used laser scopes to target their victims.

Stalking the Day Laborers
good article to read from Time Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1134748-1,00.html

Quote:

Salvador Reza, 54, a project coordinator for the center, called 911, and several minutes later the police arrived and defused the confrontation. "It was starting to become dangerous," he says. "They wanted to create violence and then blame it on the laborers."

The list can go on and on.....but as I said: put up your blinders and
pretend nothing happens.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Well, one can be living in San Diego and be completely oblivious and ignorant to such things, especially when one is pro-minuteman and disregards any human rights towards the Mexican population.

The Union Tribune newspaper has many articles on it in its archives,
you should check that.

These are just excerpts of articles there at various dates

Quote:
Minutemen in Vista recently harassed day laborers and Latino store owners at a popular day-labor site at a Vista shopping center, said Sylvia Ramos with Vista's Coalition of Justice, Peace and Dignity, a human-rights group.

Patrols of day-labor sites and monitoring of camps where immigrant workers live in crude shanty homes will continue in Vista, Fallbrook, Ramona, Poway, Carlsbad, Oceanside and Escondido, the groups' members said.

"We need to get on with the job the president will not do," Lisauskas said.

Quote:
Two migrant people were shot under mysterious circumstances last week in the border region where the Minutemen have been patrolling. One was shot in Mexico and one was shot inside the US. While "Mexican authorities" have claimed that "bandits" were behind it, the victims were quick to point out that nothing was stolen from them. This strange circumstance is added to by the fact that these "bandits" used laser scopes to target their victims.

Stalking the Day Laborers
good article to read from Time Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1134748-1,00.html

Quote:
Salvador Reza, 54, a project coordinator for the center, called 911, and several minutes later the police arrived and defused the confrontation. "It was starting to become dangerous," he says. "They wanted to create violence and then blame it on the laborers."

The list can go on and on.....but as I said: put up your blinders and
pretend nothing happens.

According to your link to the Time magazine article,the minutemen did nothing illegal.
They didnt enter private property,and their demonstration was peaceful.
So,what about their actions were illegal or threatening in any way?
According to your link,they didnt start any violence.

You are reading into that article what you want to see,thats all.

Also,this quote...

Quote:

Two migrant people were shot under mysterious circumstances last week in the border region where the Minutemen have been patrolling. One was shot in Mexico and one was shot inside the US. While "Mexican authorities" have claimed that "bandits" were behind it, the victims were quick to point out that nothing was stolen from them. This strange circumstance is added to by the fact that these "bandits" used laser scopes to target their victims.

Does not even mention the minutemen at all.
Soi,since the Mexican authorities dont blame them,why are you?
As for using laser scopes (they arent actually scopes,but that is a minor difference) big deal!!
You can buy those at almost every WalMart in the country,and at every gun store.
That in itself proves nothing.

As for what happened in Vista,I would have to know more.
I am familiar with that day labor site,and as for the camps where the migrants live,since they are there illegally,they have no right to be there.
Would you be happier if the person that owned the property harrassed them and ran them off?

I am not saying that every person in the minutemen is an angel,but you are trying to lump all of them into the same category as AQ or Osma bin Laden.

You need to get off your high horse and see the real world.
Dont try to tell me I am wrong,I grew up in San Diego county (San Ysidro) and am very familiar with the problems of illegal immigration.

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Listen, you're just a tad too ignorant for my taste. It seems you actually
cannot comprehend the serious violations of human rights here.

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Vigilante
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Vigilante (disambiguation).
A vigilante is someone who takes enforcement of law or moral code into their own hands. The term vigilante stems from the name "Vigiles Urbani" given to the nightwatchmen of Ancient Rome who were tasked with fighting fires and keeping a lookout for runaway slaves and burglars. In modern Western society, the term is frequently applied to those citizens who "take the law into their own hands," meting out "frontier justice" when they perceive that the actions of established authorities are insufficient. Vigilantism is sometimes vilified when it gives way to criminal behavior on the part of the vigilante.

Vigilantism has existed in some form for as long as there have been societies with weak law enforcement. In some cases, like Neo-Nazis or the Sombra Negra discussed below, the desire to impose the groups own values on individuals in society leads to vigilantism. In the United States in the first half of the nineteenth century, vigilantism took the form of lynch mobs. More recent examples of criminal vigilantism include the Neo-Nazis and other hate groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

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Dem wants to make the minutemen "terrorists"

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